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#570722 - 04/24/18 09:28 AM Re: A much better trip this time. [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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Dave R Offline
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Originally Posted by GoFirstClass
Dave, how does the Navionics on a laptop keep track of your position? I downloaded it to my phone just to try it before we went on that trip. It worked fine, but my phone has a built in GPS. I don't think my laptop has a GPS in it.


I don't think it would work on a laptop, but most tablets (ipad etc.) have GPS built is and can connect to the cellular network, so they would operate like your smart phone when using the app. I use the Navionics web-based charts to plan a trip while sitting in my office, but not while I'm on my boat. That said, if I use my phone as a hot spot, I can access the navionics website with my laptop while on my boat, so I could review charts and such on the fly, but the laptop would still not operate like a plotter, it would be better described as an electronic chart viewer. Hope that makes sense.


"Mischief Managed"
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#570723 - 04/24/18 12:03 PM Re: A much better trip this time. [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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Grand Poobah

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Pasco, WA
Yup, that makes sense even to an old fart like me.

Thanks,

Mike


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#570729 - 04/25/18 11:51 AM Re: A much better trip this time. [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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WayWeGo Offline
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GFC, we run the Navionics app on an Android tablet and it works as well as the dedicated Simrad chartplotter, only without all the NMEA 2000 network resources (depth sounder, etc). Once I make some more changes to the electronics, we will have a chart plotter at each helm and the tablet will be able to mirror the screen of the plotter at the helm we are not using. That will give us quit a bit of capability at a reasonable price.

Garmin (who purchased Active Captain and Navionics in the last year) just announced that they are going to release Active Captain on the Navionics app by the end of this year. That will be a nice addition for those times you are out of wifi range and not able to use the Active Captain web interface.

Thinking about your power problem, I wonder if you were not running into issues with changes to the National Electric Code (NEC) that now require dock power to have ground fault protection. Depending on how it is implemented, a ground fault or leakage fault on your boat (not at all uncommon) can take down the whole dock: We have run into this before when connecting our boat with twin 30A cords. By using a 50A adapter, the problem was solved, telling me that we have an issue with how the neutrals are connected on our boat. While this is a bit dated, there is more info at: https://gilwellbear.wordpress.com/c...c-topics/emerging-ac-electrical-concern/

Last edited by WayWeGo; 04/25/18 11:56 AM. Reason: added details about the Navionics app


1975 Trojan F36 Convertible, Twin Chrysler 440's
2014 West Marine AL360 Inflatable, 1966 Mercury 6HP, 1992 Mercury 20HP
#570730 - 04/25/18 01:56 PM Re: A much better trip this time. [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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WWG, I read that article and found it interesting and it brings to mind a question: We overnighted at the Arlington, OR Marina. It had shore power recently installed on the docks (2017-2017) and I would assume that since it's owned by a municipality, that it would be compliant with the codes in force at that time.

We plugged in using the reverse splitter (two 30A plugs down to one 50A) and everything worked fine. Then we got to Hood River the next night. They also had a newly installed electric system on the docks. Not only did we not get any power, but the red light on the reverse adapter did not come on, indicating no power to the pedestals. No tripped breakers, zip, nada, nothing.

Then when we moved to the third dock were there was shore power that had been installed years ago, when we hooked up using the reverse adapter we got the red light indicating there was power, and when I turned on the 50A/240V breaker on the boat the LED indicators showed the power climbing up to 240V as it should have. But as soon as I flipped on the other breaker that I would normally use when hooking up only the 240V side to the boat, it tripped the dock breaker.

We reset the dock breaker and the power to the boat came back on. But when I tried flipping the breaker for any of the 240V appliances (we used the water heater breaker because it immediately draws power) it immediately tripped the dock breaker again.

So that begs the question of why, when using two different power sources (Arlington and Hood River) both of which were recently installed, did one work and the other not work?

Stymied Mike


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#570732 - 04/26/18 06:36 AM Re: A much better trip this time. [Re: Dave R]  
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2Suns Offline
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Originally Posted by Dave R





Our next boat will likely be a Tollycraft 44 or 45 with a lower helm option and twin CAT 3208s. I hear they are quite popular out your way.




Interesting. That's an old engine that's not known for fuel efficiency and is heavy.

Last edited by 2Suns; 04/26/18 06:39 AM.

By the time they had diminished from 50 to 8, the other dwarves began to suspect "Hungry.”-Gary Larson
#570733 - 04/26/18 10:28 AM Re: A much better trip this time. [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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captkevin Online content
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Cat 3208 is a fairly popular marine diesel power plant.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#570736 - 04/26/18 02:02 PM Re: A much better trip this time. [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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2Suns Offline
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Very popular in other applications as well. Iā€™m not necessarily knocking it. Lots of them still working. They were basically designed to throw away when they failed. And their reputation is that failure is catastrophic.


By the time they had diminished from 50 to 8, the other dwarves began to suspect "Hungry.”-Gary Larson
#570746 - 04/27/18 06:40 PM Re: A much better trip this time. [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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2Suns, what can you tell me about the rep of Cat 3406 engines and more specifically, the 3406C?


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#570751 - 04/28/18 07:52 AM Re: A much better trip this time. [Re: 2Suns]  
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Dave R Offline
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Raymond NH
Originally Posted by 2Suns
Originally Posted by Dave R





Our next boat will likely be a Tollycraft 44 or 45 with a lower helm option and twin CAT 3208s. I hear they are quite popular out your way.




Interesting. That's an old engine that's not known for fuel efficiency and is heavy.


I have given this a ton of thought and done a lot of research already. That's my MO on major purchases and it's served me well.

Not much of a choice in the Tolly, they went out of production in 1996 and never had more modern engines. I also don't have a lot of choice of boats in that size range since I'm picky about quality and have air draft limitations due to the canals I wish to cruise. Some Tollycraft 44/45s came with Detroit Diesels but they are pretty rare and have their own issues. Also, I don't want gas engines. Not at all concerned with fuel use, to be completely honest, fuel will be one of smallest expenses as we plan to move a little, hang out a lot, repeat. When living aboard, there won't be a ton of incentive to see everything as quickly as possible like there is when we are on the boat for a vacation.

I'm aware of the 3208 not having replaceable cylinder liners. That does not make it a throwaway any more than any other engine though, when it wears out, you can bore it and install .040 over pistons and when those wear out you can bore it again, sleeve it, and it's good as new again. The biggest difference between a "throwaway" and a wet-sleeve diesel is that it cannot be rebuilt in the boat. Tollycraft thought of that though and they can be removed without modifying the superstructure. That said, in marine applications, 3208 re-bores are very rare as they seem to last forever in boats and are regarded as very desirable and reliable. I suspect it has a lot to do with the fact that at 375HP, they are commonly used in "Fast Trawlers" or "Semi-Displacement Boats" like the Tolly. These boats are typically cruised at 10ish knots 95% of the time which means light engine loads (the engines will typically push these boats to 27ish knots at WOT). Most folks only "open them up" for a few minutes per day to blow out the carbon. I doubt the engines would last very long at high loads which is probably why the 3208 has a spotty reputation in industrial and truck applications.

Other things I like about the 3208 is that they are simple and easy to work on for a DIY guy like myself, and spare parts are widely available all over the world. Modern common-rail diesels are awesome, but I can assure you (since I have one in my truck with 6000 hours that I have to maintain), they are not even remotely DIY-friendy and parts availability is spotty at best in the Caribbean. I plan to carry the tools necessary to do a head gasket swap, test/replace injectors, swap a turbo, replace a water pump, replace an injection pump etc. I also will have lots of spare parts aboard. My goal is to be as close to 100 self-reliant as possible. There will be big expenses we won't be able to avoid like hauling the boat for below the waterline maintenance, so it makes sense to have the skills/tools to do as much as possible myself. It helps that I am unable to sit still and will go from having multiple hobbies and vehicles to maintain at my house, to having one vehicle to maintain and no house. That boat will be overwhelmed with loving care and maintenance in my possession.


"Mischief Managed"
2000 Regal 2550 LSC
7.4 MPI Bravo 3
#570752 - 04/28/18 07:57 AM Re: A much better trip this time. [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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2Suns Offline
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First of all, I am no expert. I has some experience with these motors being behind the wheel and I have some acquaintances that are retired engineers/ project managers that worked in engine development. They are like walking encyclopedias of old Cat diesel engines.

Generally speaking I think the 3406 is a highly respected motor. It was considered a million mile engine in the trucking industry.

It gets weird when defining A,B,C & E. It's my understanding that the A's were pretty much all mechanical fuel delivery. Most of the B's were mechanical with some being electronic fuel delivery. The C's were mostly electronic with a few mechanical. The E's were all electronic delivery. I think The E's had some emissions control stuff on them? I'm not sure about that. There are other subtle differences between the series like different rods and pistons, etc. Even with the tweaking of the engine over the years, I've never heard "It's a good engine but stay away from the 'X' series".

All that said, I have no idea what all happens to these engines for a marine application. Obviously the cooling system is completely different but other than that?


By the time they had diminished from 50 to 8, the other dwarves began to suspect "Hungry.”-Gary Larson
#570753 - 04/28/18 01:30 PM Re: A much better trip this time. [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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Grand Poobah

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Pasco, WA
Good info from both of you. Thanks,

Dave, I'm envious of your mechanical abilities. They far surpass mine and I'm sure being able to do those repairs gives you a strong sense of independence when you are cruising.

2Suns, your comment about the 3406 being a million mile engine duplicates what a Michigan Cat dealer told me when I was doing my research before I bought Beachcomber. The boat had 1100 hours on it at that time and his comment was to the effect that it was barely broken in. He said the engine was designed for over the road trucks and designed to run a million miles before it needed an overhaul. He said my boat with 1100 hours was the equivalent of 11,000 miles in a truck.

That was a major factor in my decision to buy the boat.

Thanks both of you for the good information.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#570754 - 04/28/18 02:36 PM Re: A much better trip this time. [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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2Suns Offline
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2Suns  Offline
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My use of the word 'throwaway' is not meant in a negative way. From what i have been told, the military wanted an engine that was relatively inexpensive, easy to maintain and could easily be changed if/when it failed. Out of that came the 3208. They found it to be a solid engine that lasted a lot longer than anyone expected.


Dave, I have reread my earlier comments and I may have come across as being critical of your comments. That was not my intention. If I did i apologize.


By the time they had diminished from 50 to 8, the other dwarves began to suspect "Hungry.”-Gary Larson
#570758 - 04/28/18 06:07 PM Re: A much better trip this time. [Re: 2Suns]  
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Dave R Offline
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Dave R  Offline
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Originally Posted by 2Suns



Dave, I have reread my earlier comments and I may have come across as being critical of your comments. That was not my intention. If I did i apologize.


I was not in any way offended. No worries.


"Mischief Managed"
2000 Regal 2550 LSC
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