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#573073 - 12/19/19 11:23 PM Retirement  
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 7,284
MarkHB Offline
Dressed for dinner
MarkHB  Offline
Dressed for dinner
Admiral

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 7,284
Norris Lake, TN
I have 4 more working days until I go on 5 weeks vacation and then retire.
Tired of waking at 4am, at work at 5am and get home at 6pm. Long day.
All ready have other refineries calling me to do some consulting work for them remotely and or on site.
I am open to it but want to spend some time moving into our lakehouse in TN.
We just finished remodeling our CA house and will post some pics later. It will be on the market end of January after we have finished interviewing real estate agents.
My wife has given her notice to retire as well. Lots of changes for us. She said it is the first time she will not have her own income. I reminded her of her 401k, IRA and our investments where she does in fact have an income.
I guess she was talking about a salary.

GFC, Could you shoot me an email or post here an answer to my question.
My problem is I can invest in stocks and make money. High risk, high return kinda guy.
But now I will be retired, my risk factor has to go down, so I will be looking for a financial advisor.
What questions should I ask of him/her regarding my financial future and who is the best for me (and wife of course.)
Who pays him is about the only one I can think of, Mutual fund or me.

Thanks


24' Monterey Explorer
Honda PWC
http://www.picturetrail.com/markhb

Golf!! Waste of a good gun range.
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#573074 - 12/20/19 09:02 AM Re: Retirement [Re: MarkHB]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,912
captkevin Online content
Admiral
captkevin  Online Content
Admiral

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,912
Chicago, IL
Congratulations on your retirement. What an exciting time. Can't wait to hear & see more about your current adventures.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#573076 - 12/20/19 04:45 PM Re: Retirement [Re: MarkHB]  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,506
WayWeGo Offline
Admiral
WayWeGo  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,506
Oakton, VA
Mark, I am partly retired since I still do some consulting. Our financial adviser recommends not being too conservative in retirement since people tend to live longer and you need to make sure you don't run out of money. Their plan is to invest aggressively but diversely and then if one type of investment is not doing well, you have other options for income until the market shifts. They intend for the portfolio to continue to grow, rather than spend it down in golden years.

Ask me in a couple of decades if it is good advice. So far this year, its a winner...

Last edited by WayWeGo; 12/20/19 04:47 PM. Reason: Clarification

[Linked Image]
1975 Trojan F36 Convertible, Twin Chrysler 440's
2014 West Marine AL360 Inflatable, 1966 Mercury 6HP, 1992 Mercury 20HP
#573078 - 12/20/19 07:56 PM Re: Retirement [Re: MarkHB]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,567
GoFirstClass Offline
Retired Boating Bum
GoFirstClass  Offline
Retired Boating Bum
Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,567
Pasco, WA
Mark, I'd suggest talking to a few financial advisors and interview them the way you are going to do with your real estate agents.

With the recent change in the world of financial firms moving to $0 charge stock trades, I'm not sure I would recommend you hire an advisor. You're going to pay someone 1%-1.5% annually to set up a discretionary account if you go that way and he's likely going to put you into one or more of his firm's financial programs. The way those work, when there is a change made in that platform's portfolio, the change takes place in every account in that platform.

I guess my advice would have to depend on what your experience level is in the financial markets. If you're pretty comfortable with doing your own buying and selling and making your own decisions I'd look for one of the companies that doesn't charge to make trades.

Also, you do not have to manage all of your money the same way. You can put some in one account and plan to be more aggressive with that one and put the remainder in a second account and be less risky there.

Here's another idea. Assuming you have a 401K, when you retire you can roll that over into an IRA account. That's a similar tax deferred account and you only pay taxes on the funds when you withdraw them from the account.

Another step you can take when you convert it to an IRA account would be to take some or all of it and immediately convert it to a Roth IRA. You would be taxed on the portion you convert but from that point on the money there would be tax free--no taxes at all when you take it out. There are some limits involved so it would be best to talk with a tax attorney about doing that.

So after all of that, my best advice would be to talk with a tax attorney then interview one or more financial advisors. Ask around among your friends to see who they use and if they're satisfied with the service they get.

Oh, and congrats on the retirement. Just don't sit in a rocker on the porch of your TN home and grow old. Go out and do something.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#573080 - 12/21/19 09:39 AM Re: Retirement [Re: MarkHB]  
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 7,284
MarkHB Offline
Dressed for dinner
MarkHB  Offline
Dressed for dinner
Admiral

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 7,284
Norris Lake, TN
Thanks for the advice on the financial planning side. Stock trading I really enjoy it and am relatively good at it. Been doing it nearly 30 years. I have also been very very lucky, I do not consider myself a guru or I would have followed that career path. Paid a lot of tuition fees (loses) over the years as well.

We have lots of projects at the lake house. Some of them are to clear the fallen trees around the stream and make an area for a seat, table etc to sit and solve the worlds problems, read the bible or whatever.
I have to make a road down to the dock for a Utility vehicle to cart water, beer, food, beer, snacks, beer etc.and to drive little old ladies in their 70's and 80's to the dock.
I need to make a concrete path and steps down by the dock while the water level is low so the old folks can walk without walking in the dirt to get on the dock.
Remodel 3 bathrooms.
Put in some stairs from the top of the hill down to the front door. {When the drive becomes icy there is no way to stop until you reach the trees and or lake) Park up the top on the RV pad and walk down would be safer.

We will continue our trips to Uganda and Kenya for our mission trips.

We have also discussed being involved with the local community, volunteering etc to keep busy, our minds active so we don't sit on the porch in a rocking chair, shotgun across the lap and swigging off a bottle of moonshine.


24' Monterey Explorer
Honda PWC
http://www.picturetrail.com/markhb

Golf!! Waste of a good gun range.
#573081 - 12/21/19 10:05 AM Re: Retirement [Re: MarkHB]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,912
captkevin Online content
Admiral
captkevin  Online Content
Admiral

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,912
Chicago, IL
Sounds like you should be busy. Are you planning on keeping your current boat or is there a upgrade coming?


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#573082 - 12/21/19 10:08 AM Re: Retirement [Re: MarkHB]  
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 7,284
MarkHB Offline
Dressed for dinner
MarkHB  Offline
Dressed for dinner
Admiral

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 7,284
Norris Lake, TN
We will keep the current boat for awhile. Want to get a handle on living expenses before we have big purchase items.


24' Monterey Explorer
Honda PWC
http://www.picturetrail.com/markhb

Golf!! Waste of a good gun range.
#573086 - 12/21/19 03:49 PM Re: Retirement [Re: MarkHB]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,048
Jack T Offline
Admiral
Jack T  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,048
Southern California
Congrats

"She said it is the first time she will not have her own income."

When you turn 70 1/2 , you will find out exactly how much the IRS thinks you have. Required Minimum Distributions (RMSs) from our IRAs are like an arrow into the heart. We pay WAY MORE income taxes than we ever have. We scrimped and saved all our lives and now the G'ment wants to take it away!


Have a great day of boating
2012 Monterey 224 FS,
300 HP Volvo Penta with catalytic converters

#573087 - 12/22/19 09:13 AM Re: Retirement [Re: Jack T]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,940
Justification Offline
Admiral
Justification  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,940
Fruit Heights, Utah
Congrats Jack on leaving the RatRace and getting to escape the high taxes of Kalifornia in retirement. no more than 7 years of the race for me.

Originally Posted by Jack T
Congrats

When you turn 70 1/2 , you will find out exactly how much the IRS thinks you have. Required Minimum Distributions (RMSs) from our IRAs are like an arrow into the heart. We pay WAY MORE income taxes than we ever have. We scrimped and saved all our lives and now the G'ment wants to take it away!

Just wait til elizabeth or bernie try to get their hands into your accounts, and a G'ment employee comes to inventory your underwear or your wine collection of 3 Buck Chuck (which shows a capital gain since it was bought as 2 Buck Chuck) to see if your net worth is into the wealth tax bracket.
with the retirement bill that congress actually just passed within the last week, will you be eligible to delay the RMDs to 72 instead? or would it be smarter to start drawing down the retirement money now to keep more of it in the lower tax brackets?
I've interviewed several advisors and haven't found the right fit yet, as I actually understand many things to their level, but get confused on other points and none have been able to help me with balancing and moving money from traditional retirement accounts to Roth accounts. Years ago I deposited post tax money into my traditional IRA, but can't make any direct Roth deposits anymore, and my company will likely fail the 401 HCE/nonHCE parity test in a few months.


Beer makes you feel the way
You should feel without beer.
#573089 - 12/22/19 05:30 PM Re: Retirement [Re: MarkHB]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,567
GoFirstClass Offline
Retired Boating Bum
GoFirstClass  Offline
Retired Boating Bum
Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,567
Pasco, WA
Good ol' George W. did me a heck of a favor with is Tax Reconciliation and Recover Act (or something similar to that). He let people roll an IRA into a Roth IRA and spread the tax liability over two years. When I retired I rolled my 401K into an IRA then immediately converted it to a Roth and paid half the tax that year and half the next.

Now all my gains are tax free and I'm not faced with RMD's. Thanks George. "Mission Accomplished"

[Linked Image]


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#573097 - 12/29/19 03:19 PM Re: Retirement [Re: MarkHB]  
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,923
Frantically Relaxing Offline
Admiral
Frantically Relaxing  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,923
Good luck with the investing. Me, can't do it. Not that I haven't tried. I have some sort of 'gambling curse', it goes something like 'every dollar I'll ever have must be worked for'. Several times in my life I've had retirement plans of some sort that basically cost me 10's of thousands of dollars to end up with dollars. Twice I invested in long term mutual fund accounts, the worst gain of the two over a 20 year span was 13% according to their paperwork... Between the two I lost over 80% of what I paid in. Back in '01 some guy talked me into a put option on Yen, watched that account do nothing then in early '02 suddenly I was $7700 to the good, a nearly 200% take. Wow, how easy is this?? So I took it and the original stake and decided to try again... So Unleaded was going up and was in the $1.20's, with spring coming it could only go more up, right, always does! And Natgas had plummeted from it's all-time high, and was poised to go back up from it's around $5 price (IIRC), partly due to some large gas-fired power plants coming on line, threatening to eat into the supply. So I buy call options on unleaded and nat gas. And not 2 days later, our pal George W gets on TV and announces to the effect 'we need to look into whats up with oil and gas prices!'... With that mere statement, oil and natgas prices plummeted, unleaded got lower than 80c a gallon in some places, I think natgas went into the $2's... I lost every cent. Had I instead bought put options, my investment would've increased nearly 1000%...

Our last trip to the Vegas area was many years ago, for a weekend Turbo Buick get together - I make dress-up trinkets for these cars... On the trip, we stopped in Mesquite to gamble a bit, then gambled a bit in Vegas, and then a bit more at Mesquite on the way home. One of my favorite games is Blackjack. On that trip, in 5 casinos total, I went 0 for 27 at blackjack (after straight-up losing the first 7 hands, I kept track)- I pushed 9 hands, lost every other hand, Not one winner out of 27 hands in an essentially 50/50 game of chance. To put that in perspective, if you were to bet $5 at Baccarat, and let the winnings ride and bet right 27 times:

$5
$10
$20
$40
$80
$160
$320
$640
$1280
$2560
= ^ 10 hands
$5120
$10,240
$20, 480
$40,960
$81,920
$163,840
$327,680
$655,360
$1,310,720
$2,621,440
= ^ 20 hands

$5,242,880
$10,485,760
$20,971,520
$41,943,040
$83,886,080
$167,772,169
$335,544,320
= ^ 27 hands ===========

of course, no casino is going to let anyone take them for $335 million, but that's the odds I beat-- in reverse. At this time we have zero money invested anywhere. Our entire net worth is making 1% in the bank and wrapped up, save for the house, in depreciating assets. And as sure as I'm sitting here, If instead of buying boats, a mobile home and a big motorhome, had I invested that money into some sort of retirement account(s) the past 14 years, at this point in time, odds are with my track record I'd have the exact same money I have now if not less, no mobile home, no boats, and no motorhome...

So good luck to all who's killing in the stock market these days. Just pray I don't join in, cuz you'll all go down with me... wink

#573099 - 12/30/19 11:57 PM Re: Retirement [Re: MarkHB]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,567
GoFirstClass Offline
Retired Boating Bum
GoFirstClass  Offline
Retired Boating Bum
Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,567
Pasco, WA
FR, I'm kinda glad to hear about your luck with investing (kidding, of course). My account that has been managed for me since I retired has done pretty well. I met with my advisor a couple of days ago and it's up 25% year over year from a year ago, and we make steady monthly withdrawals from it to keep fuel in the boat. The 25% is figured with factoring in the regular withdrawals we make.

My MIL's account that I have taken care of for her was totally in Exxon and mutual funds. The mutual funds averaged 17-18% per year growth over the past 10 years.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#573104 - 12/31/19 07:46 PM Re: Retirement [Re: MarkHB]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,567
GoFirstClass Offline
Retired Boating Bum
GoFirstClass  Offline
Retired Boating Bum
Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,567
Pasco, WA
I forgot to add in a line or two of thanks in my earlier post so I'll do it here.

Thanks to President Trump for a few banner years with nice gains in the nation's economy. Consumer confidence continues to rise, unemployment, especially among minorities is way down. Thank you Sir.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#573108 - 01/01/20 03:25 PM Re: Retirement [Re: MarkHB]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,048
Jack T Offline
Admiral
Jack T  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,048
Southern California
Thanks GFC

As we all pretty much know, bad comes with good. Based on the value of our 401K retirement plans in December each year, as the value goes up as it has been doing, increases in the Required Minimum Distributions follow, many times taking our tax rate step(s) up as well.


Have a great day of boating
2012 Monterey 224 FS,
300 HP Volvo Penta with catalytic converters

#573117 - 01/03/20 01:29 AM Re: Retirement [Re: MarkHB]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,567
GoFirstClass Offline
Retired Boating Bum
GoFirstClass  Offline
Retired Boating Bum
Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,567
Pasco, WA
Jack, Here's a way around RMD's. Convert your 401K to an IRA then to a Roth. You will pay the taxes up front then after that you have no more taxes and no RMD's....forever. It's a tough bite to pay those taxes, but it'll save you a lot in the long run.

Now I'm sure there are some people who are doubting the returns I quoted above, but just to confirm what I was saying, I just got the statements from American Funds for my granddaughters' college savings accounts.

Here are the results: I started an account for each of the girls on 7/15/14. I put in $XXX/month in each account and have it invested in four mutual funds. So I've put in about $XX,XXX into each of the accounts. The balance in each account as of 12/31/19 was $XX,XXX. The return on each of the accounts in 2019 was 25.82% (both accounts are identical).

The annualized return since I opened the accounts is 8.86%.

The secret is to (a) pick the right selection of mutual funds and (b) stick with it. I'm still about 10 years away from the oldest granddaughter needing to withdraw any funds for school. One nice thing about it is that funds she withdraws will be tax free because of the type of account the funds are invested through. It's a 529 College Savings Account.

It can be done.

Last edited by GoFirstClass; 01/03/20 02:26 AM.

"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#573120 - 01/03/20 09:48 PM Re: Retirement [Re: MarkHB]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,048
Jack T Offline
Admiral
Jack T  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,048
Southern California
Thanks. We will be having our fee-paid advisor pencil this out for us at our next meeting.


Have a great day of boating
2012 Monterey 224 FS,
300 HP Volvo Penta with catalytic converters

#573121 - 01/03/20 09:50 PM Re: Retirement [Re: MarkHB]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,940
Justification Offline
Admiral
Justification  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,940
Fruit Heights, Utah
Anybody have a clue how the new inherited IRA rules of 10 years apply to Roth accounts?
The admiral and I have our trust fund set up to pay out to the kids over 20 years, but if I'm reading the recently passed legislation as all retirement accounts need to be cleaned out and taxes paid in 10 years.
Do I need to get back with the trust attorney and rewrite the payout to account for this new law, or bite the bullet and roll into the Roth and pay taxes now to allow them to not pay, while still spreading their inheritance out over 20 years?
Not sure if the tax guys have figured out the new law yet, and I don't want to have to rewrite the trust $$$ if we don't have to .


Beer makes you feel the way
You should feel without beer.
#573135 - 01/13/20 12:58 AM Re: Retirement [Re: MarkHB]  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,922
athiker Offline
Admiral
athiker  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,922
Lake Norman, NC
That's a great question, initially I would think that just b/c the money has to come out of the IRA it would not necessarily have to come out of the trust. It may be able to go into the general trust bank account or a "regular" investment account held by the trust. I don't actually know the real answer though, would be curious to know as well. Even if that is possible it probably would require some tweaking of the trust language.

One thing to consider before converting a 401k to an IRA and then to a Roth (Google "Backdoor Roth" for lots of articles) is understanding you will have less total funds actually invested than if you do not convert. Depending on your time horizon and expected returns, it may very well still be worthwhile, but just another thing to consider. When my income dipped as my option trading career was coming to an end about 10 years ago I did Roth conversions several years in a row from SEPs and IRAs as I was in a lower tax bracket and still (hopefully) had quite a few years ahead of me.

Just an example with made up numbers. Let's say you have $50,000 in a regular investment account and $100,000 in a 401k or IRA. You convert the $100,000 in an IRA to a Roth and that plus your other income puts you in the 24% tax bracket. You pay the tax and now have $26k + $100k of total capital invested. If it puts you into the 32% tax bracket you now have $18k + $100k of total investments.

If you assume a 10% return and the 32% tax bracket example...at the end of year 1 you have $165,000 in assets vs $129,800. At the end of year 2 you have$181,500 vs $142,780. Just some numbers to play around with, eventually depending on returns and tax rates now and in the future the Roth should provide the better after tax result, it just might take a few years. The nice thing about the Roth, barring an asset grab, is you don't have to worry about future tax rate increases. However if you think you will be in a relatively low tax bracket in retirement, then the conversion may not be as beneficial. Don't mean to muddy the waters, but there can be a lot of considerations, some of which are not necessarily knowable, like future tax rates.


2000 Cobalt 206 5.7L EFI Alpha 1

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