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#572549 - 07/13/19 06:43 PM Trailer tire quandary  
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Titanium Offline
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I am in a pickle with my trailer tires for my dual axle trailer. Due to family health issues in another state, I had last used the boat in June last year. We finally got the boat launched in June, but found that the trailer had one completely flat tire and two others had huge dents where they had been touching the ground.

We store the boat an hour away in one of those places where the boat and trailer are stored in a building on a rack. It appears that the boat storage place never checked whether the tires needed inflating during the entire year that we weren't around.

We inflated the flat tire, but could tell within an hour that it was not holding air properly. I changed out the flat with the spare that was on the trailer, and took the flat tire in to be repaired. The tire place said it was unrepairable because they found steel strands from the belt sticking out both inside and outside the tire.

I end up choosing one of the lesser cost options which is a Carlisle Sport Trail LH ST215/75D14 bias with a speed rating of 102N. I get the new tire back to the boat in a couple of days and find out that one of the dented tires now has a huge hernia sticking out of the sidewall. I swap the new tire with the herniated tire and take the herniated tire in to the tire place. Once I get the second new Carlisle tire back home I notice that the tire is embossed with "102M", not 102N like my receipt shows. 102N is rated for 87 MPH whereas 102N is rated for 81 mph. Really weird part is that Carlisle only makes this style and size tire in a 102N.

The tire place calls Carlisle and some customer service dude says that it must have been a molding issue at the factory and that the tire is indeed a 102N. Ok, no harm, no foul. We request that Carlisle puts this verbal response in an email so we can have it for our information and records. It has been a week and Carlisle seems to be unable, or unwilling, to put their explanation in writing. Now I'm getting alarm bells in my head and starting to rethink the whole inexpensive Carlisle tire route I had taken. Plus dummy me finally realized that the two new Carlisles are bias ply and that all of my existing 2012 tires are radials.

My quandary is:

1. Should I be going with bias or radial tires? Bias ply supposedly have stiffer sidewalls, but are not so hot on long drives. Radials are better for long drives, but they didn't do so hot sitting for a year, possible under inflated. I do tow to another state for 600 mile trips every couple of years.

2. Am I making too big of a deal with the supposedly mislabeled new Carlisle bias tires?

3. OK to run the new bias ply on one axle and run the older existing radials on the other axle?

4. If my spare is now a new bias and one of the radials blow out, how bad of an idea is it to run a radial and bias on the same axle until I get to a tire repair shop?

5. Or, given that the older radials are now 7 years old, just replace all of them and quit dinking with the issue?

Thanks as always.


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

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#572550 - 07/13/19 08:29 PM Re: Trailer tire quandary [Re: Titanium]  
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Jack T Offline
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#5--Safety is more important than you struggling to make the right tire decision. In addition to purchasing 5 same radial tires, the dealer should offer to take back the Carlisle tires-- And give you a spankin' best price on the group of radials for the hastle he has put you through.

'Nother thought. Whether or not the Carlisle tires were makred incorrectly by mistake or not, the tires is worthless. For example, suppose you have a problem with the M tire. You take it back to the dealer. He calls Carlisle to file a claim, and they refuse it. Ha! That's what you can expect from poor customer service. Lesson be learned.


Have a great day of boating
2012 Monterey 224 FS,
300 HP Volvo Penta with catalytic converters

#572551 - 07/14/19 12:24 AM Re: Trailer tire quandary [Re: Titanium]  
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Frantically Relaxing Offline
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Me- I will Never. Ever. Again- Put radial tires on a trailer with more than one axle. Radial sidewalls simply can't handle the tight-turn 'squish', it breaks down the cords, and they fail. Bias sidewalls don't squish like radials; what happens instead during tight turns is tread rubber is scrubbed off. This is a much safer option than broken steel belts, with the added benefit of being visible. You can't see broken belts-- unless they're so bad they're sticking out of the tread or sidewalls!
.
.

.
To wit: this Goodyear Marathon radial, front/left on the 8000#-ish Party Cruiser's 3-axle trailer, with less than 3000 travel miles, blew out while PARKED at the harbor...

[Linked Image]



In contrast, this is the worst of the 4 Goodyear Workhorse bias tires on the 7200#-ish Chaparral's 2-axle trailer, with an estimated by the previous owner 20,000 miles on them- these tires did hard turnarounds on the razor-sharp Bullfrog launch ramp at Lake Powell in 100°+ heat a dozen times a year for 6 years (Justy will attest to the 'razor sharp' part wink )


[Linked Image]


===================

The launch ramp literally tore chunks of rubber off the tires over the years, the tire's sidewalls are so strong the tires just slide sideways rather than fold over like radials. There's a lot of rubber missing in spots, and being able to see the damage, you know when it's time to replace the tire! IMO even with that much rubber missing, that tire is still safer than any radial with more than 1000 miles on it...

Our Regal has 6 mismatched radial under it, and before it see's any more highway use they're getting changed out to bias...

And for what it's worth, the Searay has had 3 radials blow since we bought it, 2 while my friend owned it, 1 when I towed it back home from Idaho. And while towing a friend's 24' Four Winns to his house for him from the harbor, his left-rear radial exploded on me...


[Linked Image]
#572552 - 07/14/19 02:09 PM Re: Trailer tire quandary [Re: Titanium]  
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Justification Offline
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Originally Posted by Titanium


5. Or, given that the older radials are now 7 years old, just replace all of them and quit dinking with the issue?

Thanks as always.

THIS. 7 year old trailer tires need to be replaced. Sure the tread may look good, but the sitting around for months at a time without exercise in the sun takes it's toll on the tires.

Unlike FR, I actually prefer Radials, because my experience with my Marathons is after having bias ply Carlisles get that same sidewall hernia you're seeing , then throw treads during a 1000 Mile road trip at about 6 years old. Unfortunately for me I was totally ignorant of Trailer tires and the dealer put on regular Radials on the Single axle trailer and boy did it handle like carp.
Put marathons on that trailer before moving cross country and it was like towing an entirely different boat.
Haven't had any issues similar to FR with tight turns on my dual axle trailer, even using those razor sharp ramps at Lake Powell, but I'm only grossing out my trailer at about 6000 LBS instead of the heavy weights FR has experience with.
My trailer is stored inside my garage, so it doesn't have the sun on the tires except maybe a total of 2 weeks a year at most, but I'm still going to replace them this winter as it's been a few years and the couple hundred bucks is cheap insurance.


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#572555 - 07/14/19 03:26 PM Re: Trailer tire quandary [Re: Titanium]  
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Frantically Relaxing Offline
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I don't know that I'd buy Carlisle anything wink

Actually I love radial tires, just not on multi-axle trailers. - And I've had problems with bias, many years ago heading to Yellowstone in my folk's 22' Delta motorhome, I stopped at a Chevron in Jackson Hole for gas, and an attendant showed me TWO bad tires (Goodyear bias) - right front tire the bottom of the center tread groove was split right down the middle for about 1/3 the way around, about 1/16" wide is all but that was cord under there. And the inner right-rear tire, the tread made an S curve in about 20" worth. -- But then, on OUR first motorhome I had 2 Toyo radials do exactly the same thing, so who knows?

And guess what I think of Michelin's big 22.5" RV tires after driving over this--

[Linked Image]


--- did this to the sidewall?

[Linked Image]

=====================

When it comes to tires, it's all a crap shoot laugh


[Linked Image]
#572557 - 07/14/19 06:47 PM Re: Trailer tire quandary [Re: Jack T]  
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Titanium Offline
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Originally Posted by Jack T
#5--Safety is more important than you struggling to make the right tire decision. In addition to purchasing 5 same radial tires, the dealer should offer to take back the Carlisle tires-- And give you a spankin' best price on the group of radials for the hastle he has put you through.

'Nother thought. Whether or not the Carlisle tires were makred incorrectly by mistake or not, the tires is worthless. For example, suppose you have a problem with the M tire. You take it back to the dealer. He calls Carlisle to file a claim, and they refuse it. Ha! That's what you can expect from poor customer service. Lesson be learned.



The dealer is America's Tire and they have been wonderful to work with. They have said several times that if I don't get the issue resolved to my satisfaction with Carlisle that they will happily take the Carlisles back. I am leaning toward getting all new tires now.

Not sure what you mean that the Carlisle tires are worthless? Are you saying that the current Carlisle problems is probably just a preview of the nonsense I would face if I had a real warranty issue?

Thanks for your help.


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

07 Cobalt 240 w/ Merc 496 Mag MPI V8 Bravo 3
05 Dodge Ram 1500 QuadCab 5.7L V8 Hemi
07 SeaDoo Wake 215, 1996 SeaDoo GTX, 05 HD Dyna SuperGlide
#572558 - 07/14/19 06:58 PM Re: Trailer tire quandary [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
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Titanium Offline
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Originally Posted by Frantically Relaxing
Me- I will Never. Ever. Again- Put radial tires on a trailer with more than one axle. Radial sidewalls simply can't handle the tight-turn 'squish', it breaks down the cords, and they fail. Bias sidewalls don't squish like radials; what happens instead during tight turns is tread rubber is scrubbed off. This is a much safer option than broken steel belts, with the added benefit of being visible. You can't see broken belts-- unless they're so bad they're sticking out of the tread or sidewalls!
.
To wit: this Goodyear Marathon radial, front/left on the 8000#-ish Party Cruiser's 3-axle trailer, with less than 3000 travel miles, blew out while PARKED at the harbor...

In contrast, this is the worst of the 4 Goodyear Workhorse bias tires on the 7200#-ish Chaparral's 2-axle trailer, with an estimated by the previous owner 20,000 miles on them- these tires did hard turnarounds on the razor-sharp Bullfrog launch ramp at Lake Powell in 100°+ heat a dozen times a year for 6 years (Justy will attest to the 'razor sharp' part wink )

The launch ramp literally tore chunks of rubber off the tires over the years, the tire's sidewalls are so strong the tires just slide sideways rather than fold over like radials. There's a lot of rubber missing in spots, and being able to see the damage, you know when it's time to replace the tire! IMO even with that much rubber missing, that tire is still safer than any radial with more than 1000 miles on it...

Our Regal has 6 mismatched radial under it, and before it see's any more highway use they're getting changed out to bias...

And for what it's worth, the Searay has had 3 radials blow since we bought it, 2 while my friend owned it, 1 when I towed it back home from Idaho. And while towing a friend's 24' Four Winns to his house for him from the harbor, his left-rear radial exploded on me...


FR,

Thanks for your thoughts and pics. I'm not sure what to say after seeing your pics.

All my existing tires are radials and one of them blew out on the freeway near Sacramento on the way back from Lake Tahoe several years ago. These were Greenball radials that were only about two years old. We had stopped only 30 minutes before the blowout and all of the tires looked great. The tire place said that it looked like blown out tire had lost pressure and been run flat according to the damage they saw. That really makes me want to install a TPMS system on the trailer tires.

And these Greenballs were installed in 2012. The existing trailer tires from 2007 from the trailer manufacturer Sport Boat Trailers were also Greenballs. I had to replace the "2007" Greenballs because I found cracking in between the treads. It turns out that the date codes for four of the five tires were from 2003! So those tires were actually 9 years old in 2007.

So I have had tire issues also. Just not as photo worthy.

Last edited by Titanium; 07/14/19 07:00 PM.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

07 Cobalt 240 w/ Merc 496 Mag MPI V8 Bravo 3
05 Dodge Ram 1500 QuadCab 5.7L V8 Hemi
07 SeaDoo Wake 215, 1996 SeaDoo GTX, 05 HD Dyna SuperGlide
#572559 - 07/14/19 07:07 PM Re: Trailer tire quandary [Re: Justification]  
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Titanium Offline
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Originally Posted by Justification
Originally Posted by Titanium


5. Or, given that the older radials are now 7 years old, just replace all of them and quit dinking with the issue?

Thanks as always.

THIS. 7 year old trailer tires need to be replaced. Sure the tread may look good, but the sitting around for months at a time without exercise in the sun takes it's toll on the tires.

Unlike FR, I actually prefer Radials, because my experience with my Marathons is after having bias ply Carlisles get that same sidewall hernia you're seeing , then throw treads during a 1000 Mile road trip at about 6 years old. Unfortunately for me I was totally ignorant of Trailer tires and the dealer put on regular Radials on the Single axle trailer and boy did it handle like carp.
Put marathons on that trailer before moving cross country and it was like towing an entirely different boat.
Haven't had any issues similar to FR with tight turns on my dual axle trailer, even using those razor sharp ramps at Lake Powell, but I'm only grossing out my trailer at about 6000 LBS instead of the heavy weights FR has experience with.
My trailer is stored inside my garage, so it doesn't have the sun on the tires except maybe a total of 2 weeks a year at most, but I'm still going to replace them this winter as it's been a few years and the couple hundred bucks is cheap insurance.



Justi, thanks for your reply and thoughts.

You had a sidewall hernia on bias and my sidewall hernia was on Greenball radials. I"m beginning to think that trailer tires are made with the second hand rubber left over from making car and truck tires.

I also have not had issues with hard turning with the radials, although they do make some interesting sounds.

My trailer is also stored inside so the tires see sun only for a couple of weeks at most each season.

Your are getting new tires for only a couple hundred dollars? The cheap Carlisle were $58 each, but by the time I get the certificate, pay the CA recycling fee, and get them mounted, it is $95 per tire. All the other trailer tire options are going to be more expensive than $58 tire base price.


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

07 Cobalt 240 w/ Merc 496 Mag MPI V8 Bravo 3
05 Dodge Ram 1500 QuadCab 5.7L V8 Hemi
07 SeaDoo Wake 215, 1996 SeaDoo GTX, 05 HD Dyna SuperGlide
#572560 - 07/14/19 09:14 PM Re: Trailer tire quandary [Re: Titanium]  
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Jack T Offline
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Titanium:
I have been using America's Tire for about 30 years--soon after they took over the local Mark C. Bloom facility. My first exposure to them was with a single axle trailer. One tire had a softball-size hernia on the sidewall. They were Goodyear bias ply, and came with the trailer when I bought the boat. I took the trailer to America's Tire, they made an adjustment, and I got one free tire (tread wear adjustment) and bought the second. Both were Goodyear Marathon.

Their customer service is out of this world, in my opinion. I, too, purchase their "certificate" for each tire. For those of you who don't know what that is, this should explain. The deal is that as long as you own the tire that's covered, they will repair it free, and if it is not repairable, they will replace it free. And, they send reminders about every 4000 to 5000 miles to have free tire rotation and balance. The certificates add 10 - 12% to the total tire cost, but I have more than got my money back over the years. The Passat seems to be a nail magnet. I have lost four of these tires (about $200 a tire) since 2013 with nails in the sidewall, which are not repairable. In all instances, a brand new tire was put on the car. The only time I have bought tires for the boat trailer from another brand were when I prepared to sell the boat.

The five tires on the current boat trailer were installed at the trailer factory sometime in 2012, so they are getting on in age. I have not learned how to read the manufacturing date, but will do so, soon. They are trailer radials, and come from Korea. Since we store the boat indoors from October to May, and trailer only to and from the lake each year (trailer and its wheels covered), I don't expect very much sunburn. I am hoping the tires last another 4 or 5 years. Fingers crossed.

One last comment. A friend of mine needed four new tires for his boat trailer. His wheels had aged and he was disgusted with the price of just the tires, so he checked out purchasing new wheels with tires already mounted. He found that it was actually cheaper! He now has new white-spoke wheels and tires.

Last edited by Jack T; 07/14/19 09:18 PM.

Have a great day of boating
2012 Monterey 224 FS,
300 HP Volvo Penta with catalytic converters

#572561 - 07/15/19 01:54 AM Re: Trailer tire quandary [Re: Titanium]  
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I have Maxxis M8008 on my trailer, having heard bad things about Carlile and wanting to get away from the Goodyear Marathons.

That was a few years ago, and now I am reading that Goodyear has feplaced the Marathons with Endurance with the production now domestic.

Some good reviews it appears.....


2002 Rinker 212 Captiva
Merc 5.7 EFI Alpha
Trail-Rite Trailer
1999 GMC 'Burb
#572562 - 07/15/19 10:03 AM Re: Trailer tire quandary [Re: Titanium]  
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On Holiday Offline
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Quote
My quandary is:

1. Should I be going with bias or radial tires? Bias ply supposedly have stiffer sidewalls, but are not so hot on long drives. Radials are better for long drives, but they didn't do so hot sitting for a year, possible under inflated. I do tow to another state for 600 mile trips every couple of years.

2. Am I making too big of a deal with the supposedly mislabeled new Carlisle bias tires?

3. OK to run the new bias ply on one axle and run the older existing radials on the other axle?

4. If my spare is now a new bias and one of the radials blow out, how bad of an idea is it to run a radial and bias on the same axle until I get to a tire repair shop?

5. Or, given that the older radials are now 7 years old, just replace all of them and quit dinking with the issue?


1. I am on my second set of Carlisle Radial Trail and have good experience with them. Having the tires exposed to the sun will speed up their life cycle so it is best to keep them covered from direct sunlight.
2. 81 vs 87 speed is not that much and who tows going 87 mph?
3. Best to run all 4 tires as the same.
4. I imagine would be okay for the short term as a spare
5. at 7 years old tires should be replaced, the tread on trailer tires would look fine however if you may start seeing dry rotting between the tread and on the sidewall.


2008 Honda Goldwing Trike
2006 Regal 2400
2004 Dodge Ram 2500
2003 Ford F-150
2002 Harley Davidson Roadking Classic
1998 Honda Civic


#572563 - 07/15/19 10:26 AM Re: Trailer tire quandary [Re: Jack T]  
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Justification Offline
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Originally Posted by Jack T
Titanium:
I have been using America's Tire for about 30 years--
Their customer service is out of this world, in my opinion.

One last comment. A friend of mine needed four new tires for his boat trailer. His wheels had aged and he was disgusted with the price of just the tires, so he checked out purchasing new wheels with tires already mounted. He found that it was actually cheaper! He now has new white-spoke wheels and tires.


WARNING: THREAD DRIFT.
Funny enough I have been needing new wheels and tires for my 28 YO half ton. Picked up a set of 18 Inch Takeoffs from a 2018 Chev truck to replace the 16 Inch wheels I had, and they really update the look of this truck that is seriously showing it's age. BUT, I made a cost/I want it now decision instead of going with my gut and took the already mounted Goodyear Wrangler MS instead of spending $150 more and waiting til Friday to get my preferred Michelin LTX-ATs.
I'll probably call the guy back today and try to trade him out the tires for the cost difference. Will Americas tire/Discount tire swap out the old and still give their road hazard and balance/rotate deal? I started using Costco for all my tire needs years ago, but this deal was too good to pass up, in that I got the whole wheel/tire combo with just a few miles on them for less than the uninstalled price of new tires from Costco, The takeoffs cost even less than just new aftermarket wheels that I haven't been able to decide on the exact wheel I liked.
Before
[Linked Image]
Last Night
[Linked Image]


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#572564 - 07/15/19 10:32 AM Re: Trailer tire quandary [Re: On Holiday]  
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Justification Offline
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[quote=On Holiday
who tows going 87 mph?
[/quote]
Oops, sorry , guilty as charged blush


Beer makes you feel the way
You should feel without beer.
#572569 - 07/15/19 11:47 AM Re: Trailer tire quandary [Re: Titanium]  
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New rims made a big improvement.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#572571 - 07/15/19 11:52 AM Re: Trailer tire quandary [Re: Titanium]  
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Funny how new rims automatically offload refrigerators that were in the truck bed. (:-)


Have a great day of boating
2012 Monterey 224 FS,
300 HP Volvo Penta with catalytic converters

#572572 - 07/15/19 12:22 PM Re: Trailer tire quandary [Re: Jack T]  
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Justification Offline
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Originally Posted by Jack T
Funny how new rims automatically offload refrigerators that were in the truck bed. (:-)


Warned you about thread drift wink
That was last years Costco Rebate$$$ purchase. Between what we spend there every year and the fact both the admiral and I have our own Costco Visas, that Freezer was almost free. As you can see from the picture, that sucker was way above the cab of the truck with a high center of gravity. I put some tie down straps going the back pop out windows and through the cab to help hold in in place. The whole way home the Admiral kept saying "I trust your Judgement, I trust your Judgement"..... I don't think she really did, but we made it down the freeway and home during rush hour with no problems.
Was gonna use this years rebate$$$ for new tires, but this deal I got on takeoffs was even better than Buying separate aftermarket wheels and using the rebates to reduce the tire price.


Beer makes you feel the way
You should feel without beer.
#572576 - 07/15/19 04:07 PM Re: Trailer tire quandary [Re: Justification]  
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Titanium Offline
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Justi, Those are nice new wheels on your truck. They look really good.

--------------------------

Ok, so I am now ready to buy a set of four new radials.

The existing tires are ST215/75R14 with a C load rating of 1870 pounds for a total of 7480 pounds. I weighed the boat when I got it (no gear inside, no spare tire, and only 1/4 tank of gas) and had a 6300 pound total weight (5880 pounds on the tires and 420 pounds tongue weight). With a full tank of gas, spare tire, all of the normal gear that has accumulated, plus any extra gear tossed in for a trip I would imagine I am pushing 7000 pounds fully loaded now. Yes, I sorely need to get the boat weighed again.

That only leaves 120 pounds of capacity per tire and that is if the tire never goes below 50 psi.. I toyed with the idea of going up to 15 inch tires to get a higher load rating, but that would probably entail modifications to the trailer fenders, and would definitely require new wheels.

Then I ran across the made in the US Goodyear Endurance radials. The ST215/75R14 are load rated D at 2205 pounds at 65 psi for a total of 8820 pounds for four tires. That should give me a headroom on each tire of something like 450 pounds. Much nicer than the 120 pounds of cushion per tire that I now have.

Evidently the Endurance line is Goodyears answer to all of the problems they had been having with their Marathon line. The only downside is that the Goodyear Endurance tires are pricy little suckers at $110 each. Four of them out the door is going to be at least $600. Ouch.

Any downsides that anyone can see?

Thanks again for all of the help and comments and ideas.


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

07 Cobalt 240 w/ Merc 496 Mag MPI V8 Bravo 3
05 Dodge Ram 1500 QuadCab 5.7L V8 Hemi
07 SeaDoo Wake 215, 1996 SeaDoo GTX, 05 HD Dyna SuperGlide
#572579 - 07/15/19 05:54 PM Re: Trailer tire quandary [Re: Justification]  
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Originally Posted by Justification
Originally Posted by Jack T
Funny how new rims automatically offload refrigerators that were in the truck bed. (:-)


Warned you about thread drift wink
That was last years Costco Rebate$$$ purchase. Between what we spend there every year and the fact both the admiral and I have our own Costco Visas, that Freezer was almost free.


We do the same thing. I take my check in to Costco and cash it then put whatever I am buying on the Visa so I don't lose out on the 2% rebate. We usually get around $800 back each year plus $150 or so on the executive membership.


Joe
Four Winns 225 Sundowner
#572582 - 07/15/19 07:21 PM Re: Trailer tire quandary [Re: Titanium]  
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Jack T Offline
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"The only downside is that the Goodyear Endurance tires are pricy little suckers at $110 each."

Now that is a good shopping experience. Did you learn that from GFC? Actually, $110 for those tires is a pretty good choice. Today, I was at America's Tire pricing some tires for our Passat. I asked that they give me quotes for Michelin only. Only one of the tires was under $200 each, and it was $194.

So, thinking of GFC, I decided to talk to a suspension, steering, brakes, and under car mechanic (Lee) I have been doing business with since the late 60's. He told me that Goodyear has been changing for the better. He pointed me to two Goodyear tires. One is $120 and the other is $128. No, I ask myself why America's Tire gets so much for the tires they sell, and then I remember Michelin, stupid. Not only did he do pricing for me, he said go to America's Tire--they have the best consumer for buying new tires--he meant the certificates. I asked why they didn't tell me about the "$100" Goodyear tires, and he said they don't make as much money., but they will sell Goodyear tires. OKaaaaay. Sounds like I should spend my tire money at America's Tires.


Have a great day of boating
2012 Monterey 224 FS,
300 HP Volvo Penta with catalytic converters


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