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#571618 - 08/27/18 11:41 AM Stupid Subaru Design  
Joined: Jan 2003
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Justification Offline
Admiral
Justification  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,816
Fruit Heights, Utah
The Admiral has a 2014 Subaru Outback.
Gotta be the most boring car we've ever owned, with a sewing machine for an engine.
got it from my sister when her company leased car was going back for a new one and she loved the car, and we got a good deal, but I'm having second thoughts.
Sure it gets better mileage than any other car we've owned, but not having leather seats when having a Black dog isn't very smart.
It must burn or leak oil somewhere I can't find as she gets a low oil light long before it's time to change the oil.
I can deal with that stuff as I never drive it, but I get to maintain it and I just learned of a really bad design with the headlights.
Low beam on the Passenger side just went out. Cool I'll just get a new bulb and 15 minutes later It'll be fixed.
NOOOO. You've got to jack up the car, remove the passenger front tire, remove the inner fender liner and lay on the ground to get to the backside of the head light assembly, and that's the easy way. The other option is to remove the entire front bumper assembly to get to the bolts to remove the headlight assembly, which on our Volvo was an easy remove two pins, pull out the assembly then replace the bulb, for a total time of less than 5 minutes.
Supposedly changed to a better design in about 2016, but from what I've leaned on the interwebs it only took the engineers 5 years to figure that out.
ARghhh Hope she doesn't get a ticket before I can get time to fix it.


Beer makes you feel the way
You should feel without beer.
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#571619 - 08/27/18 11:56 AM Re: Stupid Subaru Design [Re: Justification]  
Joined: Oct 2003
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captkevin Offline
Admiral
captkevin  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,503
Chicago, IL
You have to wonder what they were thinking when the design something like that.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#571621 - 08/27/18 12:11 PM Re: Stupid Subaru Design [Re: Justification]  
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Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,166
Pasco, WA
My son in law was looking for a car because his died and it would cost more to fix than it's worth. One of the odd things about his VW Toaureg was similar to Justi's Subaru is that to change a headlight they have to remove the entire front clip on the SUV. Talk about a PITA.

So he and I had several phone conversations about what cars to look for and what to avoid. One on my suggested list to avoid was anything from VW or Jeep. So what does he buy? A VW Tijuan (sp??).

You can lead them to the water but you can't make 'em drink.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#571622 - 08/27/18 05:03 PM Re: Stupid Subaru Design [Re: Justification]  
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
Frantically Relaxing Offline
Admiral
Frantically Relaxing  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
The battery in our 04 Dodge Stratus was mounted in front of the left front tire, behind the plastic wheelwell-

And on a semi-boat-related note, the Lotus/Mercury Marine designed LT5 engine for the old ZR-1 Corvette had it's starter motor INSIDE the engine.

I don't think any car mfr. has the market cornered on engineering WTF's! grin


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#571623 - 08/27/18 06:35 PM Re: Stupid Subaru Design [Re: Justification]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,503
captkevin Offline
Admiral
captkevin  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,503
Chicago, IL
Wow putting the starter in the engine seems like a total nightmare when it has too be replaced.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#571624 - 08/27/18 07:02 PM Re: Stupid Subaru Design [Re: Justification]  
Joined: Jan 2003
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Jack T Offline
Admiral
Jack T  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,854
Southern California
I can second your thoughts about Subaru. It took me months to pull the trigger to buy a Subaru--have regretted it ever since. Having a place in the mtns whee it snows was one of the primary reasons we bought the 2006 Legacy sedan. Great in the snow and on ice. But........

I really believe our vehicle was a lemon from the day we boutht it. Transmission. Air conditioning. Access to lamps as you say. I had the car serviced from day 1 at the Subaru dealer where I bought the car. Then, I was laid off and had to find one close to home. I did, and was quite happy with the service writer who always knew my name when I walked in.

The Suby service schedule required a timing belt change at 107,000 miles. My wife complained that she could smell something burning every time we drove it (my sense of smell is poor, so I was unaware). So I jacked up the car and looked for dripping oil. Found some dripping from the oil filter canister mount off the block. OK, that sounds simple enough. I'll have the dealership take a look at it--probably needs a simple gasket. When I took it in, I told the service writer what I had found. He very quickly said "Or cylinder Head gaskets." He asked me if I could wait while they did a preliminary inspection. Sure enough, it was head gaskets on both sides of the pancake engine. Then, he said that as long as they were into the engine (had to be removed to do the work), they might as well change out the water pump and all the other gaskets in that area. The estimate was near $2400.

Because I had the car serviced only by Subaru dealers, I called Subaru Customer Service and asked the rep why hasn't Subaru figured out how to make head gaskets that don't leak at under 100,000 miles. I also told him about all the other problems I had during my ownership and that the car was now getting very loud the older it got (rubber door seals, engine compartment seals?) He said give him a day and he would get back to me. The next day, the dealer called and told me that they and Subaru would fund half of the cost. Good customer service, I guess, but...very low reliability in today's modern automotive designs.

We had it fixed and the dealer was very nice to us after that, but then the service writer was replaced when a new service manager came on board. Not a forward step.

Guess what. My wife continued to smell something burning. Next oil change came about. The right hand side inner axle boot was leaking grease. They took me out the the shop to show me. I suggested that they replace the outer boot while they have it all apart. Their response was "Don't need to. We only have issues with the inner boot." To which I asked "Why?" Their reply was that the inner boot sits just over the catalytic converter and the heat cooks the boot. Another $350 bill. What were the engineers thinking?

Guess what again. Still a burning smell. Next oil change. The power steering pump was leaking a very little bit. $350 just for the part. Ant this thing is just a tad larger than a very large egg. I told them not do it--"I am getting rid of the car." Found some power steering treatment, put it in according to the instructions. Didn't leak, at least not the few months we owned the car before we sold it to a very happy young man.

And, no more burning smell.


Have a great day of boating
2012 Monterey 224 FS,
300 HP Volvo Penta with catalytic converters

#571625 - 08/28/18 01:56 PM Re: Stupid Subaru Design [Re: Justification]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,816
Justification Offline
Admiral
Justification  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,816
Fruit Heights, Utah
Changing the bulb took only about a minute. It was the tear down and reassembly that was a PIA. On a good note, I only broke two of those stupid splash shield push pin attachment fasteners, and put one in the wrong spot. Of course that is the one that fell under my floor jack, so I couldn't try to install it until I had put the wheel back on so I could move the floor jack. Then when trying to figure out which hole it was actually supposed to go into I dropped it into the lower control arm, probably never to be seen again. Now I get to try to find the right push pin type fasteners so she doesn't get a buzzing from the inner fender liner being installed wrong.
I love working on cars.


Beer makes you feel the way
You should feel without beer.
#571629 - 08/29/18 11:15 PM Re: Stupid Subaru Design [Re: Justification]  
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,939
Silverbullet Offline
Admiral
Silverbullet  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,939
Boise, ID
Maybe I'm the odd man out on this one. Wife bought a 2000 forester in 2005. Its got about 185k miles on it now.

We had to replace the inner boot, twice which is frustrating. A couple years back I could see the heads starting to leak so I pulled the engine and replaced all the gaskets, the timing belt and all the rubber.

Maybe i give it too much credit. We've owned it forn13 years and put maybe 3500 into it over that time which is 300 per year in maintenance. We could've saved 2500 of that maintenance if we dumped the car 3 years ago instead of rebuilding the motor.

But alas, engineers get stupid. I can change the headlight in 2 minutes. I know how because I've done it several times.


James
2002 Cobalt 226 VP 8.1GIDP
2007 Chevy 2500HD Crew Cab Duramax
1988 Suburban 3/4 Ton
2000 Subaru Forester


#571632 - 08/30/18 01:12 PM Re: Stupid Subaru Design [Re: Justification]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,816
Justification Offline
Admiral
Justification  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,816
Fruit Heights, Utah
I'd always heard good things about Subarus prior to getting this one, but recently my BIL who is in the Parts Business was warning me about head gasket issues like James saw with them.
Warned me to make sure the antifreeze is changed more often than on a "normal" car, as aging AF is thought to be part of the issue. He says they are notorious for oil consumption, but I don't recall what the underlying cause for that is. While the car cruises at more than freeway speeds well, It's the anemic acceleration and sewing machine engine that just drives me nuts.
Then to find out the procedure for replacing a simple light bulb just reinforced my distaste for the car, but did confirm my desire to get a two and four post lift in my next house.... so I got that going for me..... which is nice.
The old 92 BMW my oldest wrecked in 2011 cost about $1000 a year to keep on life support for it's final 5 years, but that was cheaper than buying a new used car for him to drive and need to repair. Some of that was normal wear and tear like tires and suspension, but it's biggest weakness was the cooling system with water pump and sensors being high failure items. I got pretty good at removing and replacing the radiator after the third pump failed Unfortunately, the admiral figured it was okay to stop at Wendy's for burgers when the overheat light came on, since it had happened before, which necessitated a radiator replacement when the inlet fitting broke. Lesson learned there for me, BMW parts may be more expensive than aftermarket, but sometimes they are cheaper in the long run. Not sure she got any lessons about warning lights and their meanings from that experience. The admiral getting in a wreck, and having a West Virginia body shop fix it just before moving to Utah didn't help matters on reliability..


Beer makes you feel the way
You should feel without beer.
#571635 - 08/30/18 02:33 PM Re: Stupid Subaru Design [Re: Justification]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,503
captkevin Offline
Admiral
captkevin  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,503
Chicago, IL
Having a lift in the garage would be awesome.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#571651 - 09/02/18 04:58 PM Re: Stupid Subaru Design [Re: Justification]  
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 7,213
MarkHB Offline
Dressed for dinner
MarkHB  Offline
Dressed for dinner
Admiral

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 7,213
CA
BMW 3 Series is the same, or it was when we had an 09.

Last edited by MarkHB; 09/02/18 04:59 PM.

24' Monterey Explorer
Honda PWC
http://www.picturetrail.com/markhb

Golf!! Waste of a good gun range.
#571652 - 09/02/18 07:03 PM Re: Stupid Subaru Design [Re: captkevin]  
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
Frantically Relaxing Offline
Admiral
Frantically Relaxing  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
Originally Posted by captkevin
Having a lift in the garage would be awesome.


Here ya go-- smile

[Linked Image]



[Linked Image]
#571653 - 09/02/18 07:10 PM Re: Stupid Subaru Design [Re: Justification]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,854
Jack T Offline
Admiral
Jack T  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,854
Southern California
Am I mistaken or is the scissor lift powered by?


Have a great day of boating
2012 Monterey 224 FS,
300 HP Volvo Penta with catalytic converters

#571654 - 09/03/18 12:25 AM Re: Stupid Subaru Design [Re: Justification]  
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
Frantically Relaxing Offline
Admiral
Frantically Relaxing  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
powered by... hand? What looks like it may be a manual pump handle is the move-it-around 'dolly handle'. The lift is run by a 220 volt elec/hydraulic pump... the 'motorcycle brake handle' is the safety-lock release, used when lowering.

Very few bad reviews, what seems to bug many people is the 7" full- lowered height, which is just a bit too high for many cars to drive over. But most any pickup truck can park over it easily. I've been considering getting one for quite awhile now, but haven't had a place to put it. After getting a nice big carport built for the Chaparral, only to sell it and buy the Regal which won't fit under it, I was thinking 'now's a good time'... but, I keep having to store customer's stuff under the thing on pallets, and the main reason not to get one, since we work from home, we never put more than 1500 miles a year on any one vehicle! So when an oil change or rotation finally does come around, I just let someone else do it smile


[Linked Image]
#571655 - 09/03/18 09:34 AM Re: Stupid Subaru Design [Re: Justification]  
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 7,213
MarkHB Offline
Dressed for dinner
MarkHB  Offline
Dressed for dinner
Admiral

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 7,213
CA
I see it as an accident waiting to happen. That van looks real precarious sitting up there.


24' Monterey Explorer
Honda PWC
http://www.picturetrail.com/markhb

Golf!! Waste of a good gun range.
#571656 - 09/03/18 11:33 AM Re: Stupid Subaru Design [Re: Justification]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,816
Justification Offline
Admiral
Justification  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,816
Fruit Heights, Utah
I'm with Mark. Narrow footprint, not bolted down. I don't think I'd trust being under it.
Finding 2 and 4 post lifts for around $1900, but running up to $15K. Haven't gotten serious yet since I don't have a place for it, but the retirement property will have one of each in my escape barn.


Beer makes you feel the way
You should feel without beer.
#571660 - 09/03/18 05:38 PM Re: Stupid Subaru Design [Re: Justification]  
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
Frantically Relaxing Offline
Admiral
Frantically Relaxing  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
I just did a google search for 'car lift accidents', found plenty of 2 & 4 post lift accidents, couldn't find a single one for the HF...

Those ad pics don't do it justice, it's more substantial than those pics make it out to be. Bad camera angles I guess wink

couple of video's, this guy's lifting a Pantera with one-
[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qG2wmhUFoo[/video]

and this guy has lots of videos of the one he uses--
[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_TpwvQHxcQ[/video]

here he shows how you move it around-
[video:youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOrQubrpFhA[/video]

-walking around under his jeep-
[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J72VJAlNGfc[/video]








[Linked Image]
#571664 - 09/03/18 06:54 PM Re: Stupid Subaru Design [Re: Justification]  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,287
cny boater Offline
Admiral
cny boater  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,287
Central New York
SUBARU is off of our “recommended buy” list when our clients ask us which new vehicles would we recommend. They finally crested the head gasket/catalytic converter issues of the older ones, and we thought all was good. All is NOT good. The 2011-? are oil burners for sure. That and the CVT transmissions have major torque converter issues, along with the never-ending heat shield rattles and yes, the stupid headlight bulb nonsense that just doesn’t have to be. Make sure you use OEM SUBARU bulbs for the headlights, or you will be expanding your vocabulary soon..


Bob
2002 Cobalt 226 350 MPI B1

[Linked Image]
#571672 - 09/04/18 05:14 PM Re: Stupid Subaru Design [Re: cny boater]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,816
Justification Offline
Admiral
Justification  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,816
Fruit Heights, Utah
[quote=cny boater Make sure you use OEM SUBARU bulbs for the headlights[/quote]
Dam Mitt.
And where do I find those inner fender push pin type fasteners? And what do I call them when I talk to the right parts guy?


Beer makes you feel the way
You should feel without beer.
#571673 - 09/04/18 07:01 PM Re: Stupid Subaru Design [Re: Justification]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,854
Jack T Offline
Admiral
Jack T  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,854
Southern California
"And where do I find those inner fender push pin type fasteners?"

I have found that o Reilly Auto Parts has quite a selection of parts like fasteners. In the store I use, they are on rotating stands. They also have other parts that are available for a lot less than what the dealer charges. On our Tahoe, there are plastic lug nut covers. The dealer wants something like $4.50 each. I believe O Reilly has them for less than $2.

Last week, I had to replace the rear window regulator on the Tahoe. The AC Delco part was well over $200. At this address, see the same thing on Amazon for $38. Well, I bought the AC Delco anyway for fear of a Chinese product wouldn't last long and I would have to repeat the replacement. Well, the AC Delco regulator was hecho en China. Oh well, win some lose some. Actually, the factory part may last longer, because hopefully, materials and tolerances are kept within specs.

https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Regu...eywords=2002+tahoe+rear+window+regulator


Have a great day of boating
2012 Monterey 224 FS,
300 HP Volvo Penta with catalytic converters

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