Your On-Line Port'o'Call

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#571584 - 08/14/18 12:02 PM Late tax filing BS  
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
Frantically Relaxing Offline
Admiral
Frantically Relaxing  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
Since 1969 my dad, and me since 1999, have filed all our tax returns by mail, ON tax day. This includes state, federal, and PARTNERSHIP returns.

Last year, like every other year, I filed everything on tax day. Couple of months later, I get a bill from the eyearess for filing our partnership return late...? And not only late, TWO MONTHS late (which means they claimed they didn't get it until sometime in MAY)... Per their instructions, I sent a letter detailing the fact that I sent ALL returns ( and my BIL's, whose taxes I also do), and that none of THEM were late, etc.. I got a phone call from a lady, she said something to the effect that I should send them in sooner, I said hooey, the envelope is postmarked, she said no it wasn't...? Ok, the X factor last year is I let the mailperson pick up from our mailbox. So, maybe that one got lost in the truck... Anyway, 'due to my good history of paying on time', they would, ONE TIME ONLY, remove the $800 fine...

So THIS year, as usual, I filed all returns on tax day, the 17th, and guess what, last week I got another bill for filing my partnership late, and like last year, 2 months late! NOT possible... gunner

Well, like a dumbass I didn't send the returns priority mail, so there's no tracking- However, I DO have online records of purchasing postage via Stamps.com, for ALL 5 tax returns I filed that day. AND, I took all 5 returns into the post office and had the clerk hand-stamp a postmark on all five 9x12 envelopes.

So then I look online for some 'absolute' rules on when a return is considered "filed".

This is from a google search, and I verified it IS direct from the eyearess website:
Search Results
Featured snippet from the web
So even if you don't live in the District of Columbia, tax year 2017 returns are due on Tuesday, April 17, 2018. Please see IR-2018-100 for a deadline update. Your return is considered filed on time if the envelope is properly addressed, has enough postage, is postmarked, and deposited in the mail by the due date.Apr 18, 2018
Topic 301


So for 'backup' I found this on a CPA website (dwdcpa.com, 'how do I prove timely filing'):
A return or a payment that is mailed to the taxman is timely filed or paid if it is delivered on or before its due date. A return with a U.S. postmark, which is delivered after its due date, is timely filed if the date of the postmark is no later than the due date, the return was properly addressed, and the return had proper postage. The timely mailing/timely filing rule also applies when a taxpayer receives a filing extension. If an envelope has a post office postmark and a non-post office postmark, the latter is disregarded and the post office postmark determines the filing date.

Ok, but it's followed by this..?

Comment. The timely filing, timely mailing rule requires that the return be postmarked within the prescribed filing period. Thus, an individual return postmarked April 16 and received on April 20 is considered filed on April 20

??? THIS statement makes no sense, and completely contradicts theirs and the eyearess's above statements! Is this a typo, or what am I missing here?

Anyway, I have 'circumstantial' evidence I mailed all the returns on time (bought postage, and does it make sense to send all but one return?) and 'hard' evidence in the postmark on the envelope, assuming some magical 'incident' didn't happen to render the postmark un-readable or just plain gone... I'd just pay the $800 but I ain't made of money...

>>> edit <<< ok, I figured out the 'what am I missing' part: They used April 16th as an example, an most tax years that would be a day late, ergo, since it was postmarked late, then the postmark doesn't count and they go by the actual received date. Why I was confused is because 2018 tax forms were due on the 17th smile

So then the postmark issue in the above statement is resolved. But it still doesn't explain why I'm getting a late bill AGAIN because I KNOW all my returns were postmarked 'on time'...


[Linked Image]
A Word from Our Sponsors
#571586 - 08/14/18 01:15 PM Re: Late tax filing BS [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,166
GoFirstClass Offline
Retired Boating Bum
GoFirstClass  Offline
Retired Boating Bum
Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,166
Pasco, WA
Ummmm, FR, might I be so bold as to suggest that you mail them a few days early?

That would save a lot of time (phone calls to the IRS) and aggravation and headache from having to deal with those idiots.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#571587 - 08/14/18 01:57 PM Re: Late tax filing BS [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
Frantically Relaxing Offline
Admiral
Frantically Relaxing  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
Actually, that's the plan-- every year grin
- but good intentions plus the "Chaos of the Day" usually equals [Linked Image] [Linked Image][Linked Image]


[Linked Image]
#571588 - 08/14/18 02:12 PM Re: Late tax filing BS [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,503
captkevin Offline
Admiral
captkevin  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,503
Chicago, IL
Or switch to filing on line

Last edited by captkevin; 08/14/18 02:12 PM.

2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#571589 - 08/14/18 11:14 PM Re: Late tax filing BS [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,166
GoFirstClass Offline
Retired Boating Bum
GoFirstClass  Offline
Retired Boating Bum
Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,166
Pasco, WA
That's what we do. Makes it so simple and it's never late unless you are.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#571590 - 08/15/18 09:05 AM Re: Late tax filing BS [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,816
Justification Offline
Admiral
Justification  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,816
Fruit Heights, Utah
FRs situation is one thing that has always concerned me about filing taxes. Actually it's only one of the MANY things that concerns me about filing taxes.
While my accountant files online before the deadline, quite often (more often than I'd ever care about happening) I have to write a check and send it off. Even though I mail it prior to the deadline, there is no way of proving that to the IRS or state, since I can't see paying priority mail to get a paper trail.
If I were to pay on line there is a 3% credit charge fee that far exceeds the cost of a stamp.
What can we as the little guy do to protect ourselves from the postal service from failing to properly postmark the envelope, or to even not deliver?


Beer makes you feel the way
You should feel without beer.
#571591 - 08/15/18 10:52 AM Re: Late tax filing BS [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,166
GoFirstClass Offline
Retired Boating Bum
GoFirstClass  Offline
Retired Boating Bum
Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,166
Pasco, WA
Justi, I would venture a guess that the IRS deposits the checks they receive the day they come in. For myself, I don't like to pay them any earlier than I need to, but if mailing a check a week early means that I don't risk the huge penalties for late filing, I'm all over that

There's a reason they call April 15 the tax DEAD LINE. If your check doesn't get there on time you're dead meat.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#571592 - 08/15/18 11:13 AM Re: Late tax filing BS [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,343
tpenfield Offline
Admiral
tpenfield  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,343
Cape Cod, MA
FR - You MAIL your tax return to the IRS . . . ?

I think hitting the 'Submit' button and getting a confirmation is the thing to do these days.


Regards, Ted

Formula 330SS

My Boat Web Sites
#571593 - 08/15/18 01:42 PM Re: Late tax filing BS [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
Frantically Relaxing Offline
Admiral
Frantically Relaxing  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
I tried that once, a few years ago. Didn't take. Don't remember why exactly, but I wasted most of a day and sent paper out anyway. And ever since.

Everyone survived all those years before e-filing came about, so I really don't see the big deal with filing paper. The phrase 'get it in writing' comes to mind. And IMO "digital signatures", are a crock, how can anyone prove they created -or didn't create- a digital signature? How can a digital signature stand up to any legal scrutiny? You need signed paperwork...

So, I'm sorry, but I REALLY don't see this issue of being sent a bogus fine as MY fault. I'd just like to know why is it the IRS would rather send me an $800 fine, rather than not have a single employee bother to notice the 2" diameter bright purple postmark that I purposely watched be stamped on a snow white 9x12 envelope as legal proof as per their own rules that my return was mailed on time?


[Linked Image]
#571594 - 08/15/18 05:52 PM Re: Late tax filing BS [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,166
GoFirstClass Offline
Retired Boating Bum
GoFirstClass  Offline
Retired Boating Bum
Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,166
Pasco, WA
FR, you are assuming that a real live person at the IRS receives and looks at your envelope. Nope, they're dumped into a bin, run through a sorter that opens them, rips out your check, scans it and the deposit is made at that moment.

People are soooo old fashioned. PSHAW!


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#571596 - 08/15/18 09:39 PM Re: Late tax filing BS [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,855
Jack T Offline
Admiral
Jack T  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,855
Southern California
"...since I can't see paying priority mail to get a paper trail."

Maybe you need new glasses. (:-)


Have a great day of boating
2012 Monterey 224 FS,
300 HP Volvo Penta with catalytic converters

#571598 - 08/16/18 08:52 AM Re: Late tax filing BS [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,470
On Holiday Offline
Daddy
On Holiday  Offline
Daddy
Admiral

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,470
PA and Smith Mountain Lake
We pay via USPS and send our returns in pending if we owe or receive. Quite frankly when we owe it's a very minor amount and thankfully don't live paycheck to paycheck so we just pay to avoid any last minute stresses.


2008 Honda Goldwing Trike
2006 Regal 2400
2004 Dodge Ram 2500
2003 Ford F-150
2002 Harley Davidson Roadking Classic
1998 Honda Civic


#571603 - 08/18/18 02:21 AM Re: Late tax filing BS [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
Frantically Relaxing Offline
Admiral
Frantically Relaxing  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
Pretty sure partnership returns are at least opened by humans but who knows... Partnerships make no money or suffer losses, only the partners do, so the returns are just money-in/money-out/profit-loss statements. And because partners are totally "at risk", partnerships are very rare these days, as most such businesses opt to be LLC's to cover their owner's butts...

And I have to give thanks to the USPS, I found out my returns HAVE been received late, and I found out WHY smile The Address I send these returns to is simply listed as INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE and a zip code. And guess what? The zip code printed on all their return correspondence, is non-existent... So maybe I have a wee bit of leverage this time 'round? grin


[Linked Image]
#571604 - 08/18/18 02:26 PM Re: Late tax filing BS [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,503
captkevin Offline
Admiral
captkevin  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,503
Chicago, IL
Good catch Frantic.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#571639 - 08/30/18 09:27 PM Re: Late tax filing BS [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
Frantically Relaxing Offline
Admiral
Frantically Relaxing  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
So this just gets better-

First, what I didn't mention above: Along with my 'evidence' that I filed my return on time, I also sent along the bill for the penalty, AND A CHECK TO PAY THE PENALTY, which I specifically directed them to cash and apply TO the penalty if they so desired to decline my statement of explanation. And note that I sent it 3 or 4 days before the due date...

So I just got a certified letter from the Eye Are Ess today. Because I got a mailing rather than a phone call I was expecting my check back with some sort of letter accepting my position that I in fact did get my return filed on time.

Nope.

Instead, turns out it's a right nasty demand for money, IMMEDIATELY, or else let the levying of my property begin.... THEY ALREADY HAVE MY MONEY!!

Just verified that I sent it on 8-16, tracking sez they got it 8-17, it was due on 8-20... [Linked Image]


[Linked Image]
#571640 - 08/30/18 10:54 PM Re: Late tax filing BS [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,855
Jack T Offline
Admiral
Jack T  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,855
Southern California
Sounds like a tax attorney needs to be contacted. Any relatives, good friends who can help?


Have a great day of boating
2012 Monterey 224 FS,
300 HP Volvo Penta with catalytic converters

#571644 - 09/01/18 01:13 AM Re: Late tax filing BS [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
Frantically Relaxing Offline
Admiral
Frantically Relaxing  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
Nah, I don't do attorneys. What would be nice would be if few people at the eyearess would do their jobs a wee bit better...

Like, shouldn't someone have noticed that they already cashed my penalty check 2 days before the due date AND 6 days before mailing me another letter threatening to seize my property? And, would it be too much to ask to maybe send a simple letter to us Partnerships explaining that beginning this year they moved the frickin Partnership filing due date BACK a month to MARCH 15th?? And where was this info when I was researching due dates before starting this thread? If it was in front of me, it wasn't very apparent...

At least the ordeal aka BS is over with, and I did get an apology, but it still cost me $800 mad


[Linked Image]
#571646 - 09/01/18 04:25 PM Re: Late tax filing BS [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,947
jtheile Offline
Admiral
jtheile  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,947
North Ridgeville, Ohio
Tax due dates are listed in Publication 509 Tax Calendars

From Form 1065 U.S. Return of Partnership Income instructions page 2:

Due date for Form 1065. For tax years
beginning after 2015, the due date for a
domestic partnership to file its Form 1065 is
March 15th or the 15th day of the 3rd month
following the date its tax year ended.


Joe
Four Winns 225 Sundowner
#571647 - 09/01/18 07:52 PM Re: Late tax filing BS [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
Frantically Relaxing Offline
Admiral
Frantically Relaxing  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,764
Yup. But who reads instructions? wink (yes, I realize I'm not blameless here)

Schedule K's have always had to be mailed out by March15th, but our partnership has always been immediate family so that's moot for us.
But just a few days ago we got a letter from the state with a great big

TAX BULLETIN
written at the top, advising us that our sales tax rates are going up in certain counties... ANY correspondence about pushing Partnership return filing due dates back a month would've been welcome...



[Linked Image]
#571691 - 09/09/18 01:55 PM Re: Late tax filing BS [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,374
WayWeGo Offline
Admiral
WayWeGo  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,374
Oakton, VA
What a PITA!

Ya gotta love bureaucracy. The last time we moved, our phone company (who we had been paying on time for 20+ years and who we still had mobile phones through) turned us over to a collection agency before our service was even stopped. In our first mail at the new house was a nasty letter from the collection agency, weeks before the final bill was even due! I guess they did not like us porting our phone number to a different company when we moved...

Sometimes, the government can be even worse when you slip through one of the cracks.



1975 Trojan F36 Convertible, Twin Chrysler 440's
2014 West Marine AL360 Inflatable, 1966 Mercury 6HP, 1992 Mercury 20HP

Moderated by  Admin 

Sponsors
New Topics
Persistence Pays Off
by GoFirstClass. 11/17/18 07:50 PM
Quick question
by Bones. 11/15/18 01:10 AM
Wow! Great to see familiar login names!!!!
by Bones. 11/14/18 11:51 PM
Auctions By Google Express
by MDB1. 11/07/18 03:17 AM
Shopping for another boat...
by Dave R. 11/06/18 05:46 PM
A fitting place for a memorial
by GoFirstClass. 10/30/18 12:25 PM
'This site is not secure'-- I'm afraid is true...
by Frantically Relaxing. 10/28/18 10:26 PM
Plastic Portable Fuel Tank
by Boatbottom. 10/27/18 01:47 PM
2003 Volvo 5.7 gi
by Rbt18. 10/26/18 10:00 PM
Boating On The Columbia
by GoFirstClass. 10/24/18 11:19 PM
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 50 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
denysss, Rbt18, oldnamwaterskier, farmermike, FrankC
5463 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums23
Topics37,215
Posts563,242
Members5,462
Most Online252
Aug 5th, 2017
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0