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#570262 - 02/12/18 09:37 AM Re: Trailer Weight? [Re: Dock Holiday]  
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captkevin Offline
Admiral
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Chicago, IL


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
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#570263 - 02/12/18 12:35 PM Re: Trailer Weight? [Re: Dock Holiday]  
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casualboater Offline
Admiral
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Highland, Michigan
Nice article. I've been checking out the Durango recently, thinking it will be my next tow vehicle down the road a ways (I hope). Good to see it came through with flying colors while having a relatively small footprint. Gotta park in the garage for winter!


1989 Larson DC 190
2007 Saab 9-7x
#570264 - 02/12/18 01:51 PM Re: Trailer Weight? [Re: casualboater]  
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Dock Holiday Offline
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Lake Geneva, WI
Originally Posted by casualboater
Nice article.


+1

#570292 - 02/14/18 09:51 AM Re: Trailer Weight? [Re: Dock Holiday]  
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captkevin Offline
Admiral
captkevin  Offline
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Chicago, IL


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#570305 - 02/15/18 09:13 AM Re: Trailer Weight? [Re: Dock Holiday]  
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WaterMutt Offline
Bilge Rat
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Bilge Rat
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Massachusetts
I don't know about the new ones but we had an '04 Expedition for 9 years and 80k miles. It was replaced with a '12 Armada, which now has 80k miles. The way the two vehicles held up over the miles and time is so different. The Expedition looked like a 20yo truck when we traded it, nothing held up on the vehicle. Interior was all cracked (this was the EB version), steering wheel looked like a dog chewed it, all the buttons were worn, etc. The Armada still looks new on the inside, the leather has held up very well and in my opinion has taken a more serious beating as the boy has been older and larger through this ownership. I know Ford (as well as Chevy) went through a cheap out and high margin era in the early 2000's and the newer vehicle quality is supposed to be better. But if I were to buy another full sized SUV, the Armada would be really high on my list. But I plan to run this one for at least another 80k and by then we won't need full size anymore... frown


Malibu Wakesetter 23XTI
Bryant 214 Limited (gone, but not forgotten)

"That's my boat..."
-Forest Gump

#570365 - 02/21/18 09:02 AM Re: Trailer Weight? [Re: On Holiday]  
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Dave R Offline
Admiral
Dave R  Offline
Admiral

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Raymond NH
Originally Posted by On Holiday
I did similar calculations when we upgraded to our current Regal 2400. I was within the limits of capacity for our F-150 however not by much, verified weights at a CAT scale. Even though the towed weight was below the trucks capacity I definitely knew the boat was behind me and made traveling very tiresome. We now tow with a 3/4 ton diesel truck and I hardly realize the boat is there and arrive at my destination much more refreshed. The point of this is to say make sure you have some cushion and are not at your max. capacity as the trailering portion will not be enjoyable.


I towed at 2k lbs over the factory limit for 10 years with my '99 Durango (with some simple and effective modifications to make it feasible and safe). I I have no regrets as it worked very well and proved to be a very economical decision at the time, plus my kids were still young and we really made good use of the seating for 7. When the Durango finally rusted out and needed to be replaced, like you, I went with a 3/4 ton diesel (bought used with 180k miles and no rust for very little money). Also like you, I find trailer towing much more enjoyable now (it actually went from being work to being fun). It has also really expanded my boating destinations since I don't have any qualms about going anywhere with it. 2018 will be my fourth season with it and I already have some big trips planned.

Anyway, in case anyone cares, if you want to dramatically increase the tow capacity (obviously not "officially", I'm just referring to physics and engineering here) of any vehicle, there's a very simple modification you can make: Put tires on it that are the same width as stock but have a smaller aspect ratio (assuming same wheel size here) and a softer compound than stock. The low profile tires not only make it easier on the drive train by lowering the effective final drive ratio, they also lower the tow vehicle's center of gravity, increase the the power of the brakes, increase traction, and dramatically improve handling. For even more safety, you can also install higher performance brakes (including brake fluid) and shocks, and if you have adjustable front suspension pre-load (pretty much any truck or SUV with torsion bars does) you can level the tow vehicle so that it sits right with the trailer attached.

Here's a pic of my leveled Durango with the low profile, and sticky tires that I ran in during towing season: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1030767061375&l=2d5bd2f661 I bought 5 extra wheels for it for cheap money on craigslist which made tire swapping very easy and since I ran the thing into the ground, the only real added expense was the used wheels because by swapping tires, I doubled the amount of time the tires lasted. I was also able to run studded Winter tires outside of boating season which was awesome and gave me peace of mind when my kids started driving.


"Mischief Managed"
2000 Regal 2550 LSC
7.4 MPI Bravo 3
#570607 - 03/30/18 08:15 PM Re: Trailer Weight? [Re: Dock Holiday]  
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Jack T Offline
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Jack T  Offline
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Southern California
Surprise! After 6 years of ownership, I finally weighed the Monterey 224 FS and the trailer with all 55 gallons of gasoline in the tank. I had estimated that the total towed weight would be in the 4800 range, and the tongue weight would be about 210 pounds. To my surprise, the total towed weight is 5260 pounds and the tongue weight is 300 pounds. I guess when we need to purchase a new tow vehicle, a cross-over like the Ford Explorer (5000 pounds) will be off the list.


Have a great day of boating
2012 Monterey 224 FS,
300 HP Volvo Penta with catalytic converters

#570610 - 03/31/18 10:33 AM Re: Trailer Weight? [Re: Jack T]  
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Silverbullet Offline
Admiral
Silverbullet  Offline
Admiral

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Posts: 8,832
Boise, ID
Originally Posted by Jack T
Surprise! After 6 years of ownership, I finally weighed the Monterey 224 FS and the trailer with all 55 gallons of gasoline in the tank. I had estimated that the total towed weight would be in the 4800 range, and the tongue weight would be about 210 pounds. To my surprise, the total towed weight is 5260 pounds and the tongue weight is 300 pounds. I guess when we need to purchase a new tow vehicle, a cross-over like the Ford Explorer (5000 pounds) will be off the list.



Not totally surprised. Weight adds up quick and I bet some are listed light or the lightest possible configuration is used. I had weighed our old Monterey 190ls but have not weighed the cobalt. I estimate it goes at 7000lbs loaded. I figured it at 4500 for the boat, 2000 for the trailrt and 500 for gear and fuel.


James
2002 Cobalt 226 VP 8.1GIDP
2007 Chevy 2500HD Crew Cab Duramax
1988 Suburban 3/4 Ton
2000 Subaru Forester


#570614 - 04/01/18 12:46 AM Re: Trailer Weight? [Re: Dock Holiday]  
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MarkHB Offline
Dressed for dinner
MarkHB  Offline
Dressed for dinner
Admiral

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Posts: 7,193
CA
9280lb with 10 gallons of fuel on the boat, 5 Gallons of fuel on the Jet Ski/ 1080lb of tongue weight.
Been a bunch of years that I weighed her so may be of a hundred or so pounds.


24' Monterey Explorer
Honda PWC
http://www.picturetrail.com/markhb

Golf!! Waste of a good gun range.
#570624 - 04/04/18 09:54 AM Re: Trailer Weight? [Re: Dock Holiday]  
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captkevin Offline
Admiral
captkevin  Offline
Admiral

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Chicago, IL
Wow that is a pretty good load markhb.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#570633 - 04/07/18 10:18 PM Re: Trailer Weight? [Re: Dock Holiday]  
Joined: Jan 2003
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Al Offline
Nautical Alchemist
Al  Offline
Nautical Alchemist
Grand Poobah

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,089
Vagabond Wanderer from Mich.
I'll offer a few comments I learned from the last few years having RVs.

Towing over the limit is always a hot topic on the RV forums. RVSafety.Com estimates that over 50% of the trailer/truck combinations are overweight in at least one area (something to remember when asking for advice). Unique I suppose to RVs, but one such area is exceeding rear axle GVAR - especially with 1/2Ton and even some 3/4Ton vehicles. They may be well within the CGWR (pulling weight) limit of their tow vehicle, but due to the 25% or so tongue weight of 5th wheels, they may very well exceed their axle rating. Usually boats do not have this problem as the tongue weights are typically lower due to the heavy engine on the back.

One problem in determining tow ratings is for lighter vehicles such as 1/2Ton pickups, minivans, and SUVs. These vehicles can have several tow and payload packages, and many engine/transmission/axle combinations. And when combined with different body styles and trim levels, the tow ratings can significantly change from vehicle to vehicle. For example, in the case of a 1/2Ton pickup, the tow package, engine, transmission, axle ratio, cab style, bed length, and trim levels can result in tow ratings from less than 5,000 lbs to over 10,000lbs - all for the same model truck.

Worse, if you buy the vehicle used, you may have a hard time in determining the tow package and other factors.

When you get to 3/4Ton and larger, the vehicles are normally equipped for maximum payload and tow ratings (i.e. generally no tow packages), and the variation in the ratings are usually limited to engine type (gas or diesel), gear ratio (but some engines only come with one gear ratio), and body style (cab type and bed length).

Also, beginning in 2016 all of the domestic manufacturers adopted SAE J2807 tow ratings, so many of those ratings went down. J2807 tow ratings are more real-world and are determined by the so called Davis Dam (NV/AZ area) test whereby the vehicle has to maintain certain performance standards in acceleration and braking with a driver AND passenger and a specified amount of cargo in addition to trailer.

While this may still not be 100% accurate, it is certainly better than the mysterious methods used previously to calculate tow ratings (which seemed to be "insert competitor tow rating" X 10%).

In 2015, my vehicle had a 17,000lb tow rating, but in 2016, the J2807 ratings recalculated the tow rating to 14,900lbs - but nothing in the vehicle changed, just the more conservative tow rating.

A few other things of interest;most trailer ST tires (pretty much everything but Goodyear G614 and Goodyear Endurance) are made in Asia, and have been for years. RV'ers generally call them "China Bombs", Most of these tires are rated for 65mph, although a few are rated to 75mph.

It was also found by RVSafety.Com that even if your trailer was under it's GVWR, an uneven load could mean one tire or axle could be over it's rating. That I suppose may be more of an issue with a RV as half of the dang things are unevenly loaded from the factory to begin with, but excessive weight on a tire, coupled with speeds exceeding 65mph, and with many people not checking tire pressure like they should; the tire can overheat excessively, and a blow-out could be more likely,

I would highly recommend a TPMS for a trailer because they can help keep your tires from being overtemp and overpressure, and if you have a failure, it can detect a leak. Afterall, it is a lot better to be warned of a rapid loss of pressure, allowing you to anticipate a blowout, as well as getting your vehicle down to say 25mph when a blowout occurs, rather than at 65mph without warning.

The TPMS I have is a Tire Minder TM55, and it allows you to measure 5 tires (4 plus spare). My RV tires require 80lbs of pressure, which is the limit to the TM55, but there are other monitors that can go higher if needed.

I have 75mph trailer tires, and my trailer weighs 10,000lbs fully loaded. But the 5th wheel tracks so well that I could easily go faster than 70mph if I wanted to. My truck is a 2016 GMC Sierra 3/4Ton with Duramax Diesel. It's J2807 tow limit is 14,900lbs (down from 17.000lbs pre-J2807). But the limiting factor for me is I am almost at maximum for the rear axle weight, due to the added hitch weight and the heavier tongue weight of the 5th wheel.

My monitor is sensitive enough that I can see which side of the vehicle the sun is on, and the diesel's hot exhaust on the right front tire; especially when the engine goes into regen, I can see that tire heat up a few degrees. At any rate, I monitor the tires with the TPMS, and drive at a speed that I am comfortable with the temps/pressures on the trailer tires (but still under the posted speed limit). When I see the temp/pressure inch up too far for my liking, I simply slow down awhile until the tires cool down a bit.

I am not sure how well the TPMS will do for boats as I don't know what their underwater rating is (but of course, they do get wet when it rains). It seems to me TPMS would be great for a boat especially because of a possible overheating bearing that gets wet. The TPMS would show that.

The real problem as I see it is not so much the ability to pull exceeding the weight limitation, but if you have to make an emergency stop, can you do it, and can you maintain control of your vehicle.


President and CEO - Napmoor and Doolittle.


2004 Mercury 270 Dinghy.
2016 Grand Design Reflection 29RS 5th Wheel
2016 GMC Sierra 2500HD SLT 6.6L Diesel

previous boats:
1995 Carver 325
1999 Four Winns 268
1999 Four Winns 225
1996 Rinker 180
#570640 - 04/10/18 07:31 AM Re: Trailer Weight? [Re: Al]  
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On Holiday Offline
Daddy
On Holiday  Offline
Daddy
Admiral

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,426
PA and Smith Mountain Lake
Very informative Al, thanks. You hit the nail on the head with tire failure by exceeding the mileage rating of the tire however this statement is not necessarily related to our topic of trailer weights. I'll take a look at tire monitoring systems as I do many 800 mile round trip tows at 65mph.

Originally Posted by Al
A few other things of interest;most trailer ST tires (pretty much everything but Goodyear G614 and Goodyear Endurance) are made in Asia, and have been for years. RV'ers generally call them "China Bombs", Most of these tires are rated for 65mph, although a few are rated to 75mph.


2008 Honda Goldwing Trike
2006 Regal 2400
2004 Dodge Ram 2500
2003 Ford F-150
2002 Harley Davidson Roadking Classic
1998 Honda Civic


#570642 - 04/10/18 10:44 AM Re: Trailer Weight? [Re: Dock Holiday]  
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captkevin Offline
Admiral
captkevin  Offline
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Chicago, IL
How do you find out the speed rating on trailer tires? It always amazes me to see how fast some people tow.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#570643 - 04/10/18 01:52 PM Re: Trailer Weight? [Re: Dock Holiday]  
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On Holiday Offline
Daddy
On Holiday  Offline
Daddy
Admiral

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Posts: 6,426
PA and Smith Mountain Lake
Per Tire Rack the speed rating is listed in the description,

Quote
Towmax STR II tires have a Service Description that confirms each size earns an L speed rating. Therefore, running the standard cold tire pressure recommended for the trailer and its load requires no additional adjustment in pressure for speeds up to the tire's 75 mph (120 km/h) maximum speed rating.


Per Carlisle website it is listed in the charts


2008 Honda Goldwing Trike
2006 Regal 2400
2004 Dodge Ram 2500
2003 Ford F-150
2002 Harley Davidson Roadking Classic
1998 Honda Civic


#570647 - 04/11/18 09:58 AM Re: Trailer Weight? [Re: Dock Holiday]  
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captkevin Offline
Admiral
captkevin  Offline
Admiral

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Chicago, IL
Interesting the Carlisle are mostly 81 mph.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
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