Your On-Line Port'o'Call

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#569768 - 12/14/17 10:20 PM Drain the Great Lakes.........  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,014
GoFirstClass Online content
Retired Boating Bum
GoFirstClass  Online Content
Retired Boating Bum
Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,014
Pasco, WA
One of the benefits of being retired is that there's almost no limit to my "free time". So this afternoon, having nothing better to do I spent some time on YouTube. You know how it is on YouTube. One video leads to another which leads to.... Well, you get the idea.

While perusing the mundane videos I came across this one and I must say, it's among the most interesting videos I've ever seen. It's almost 42 minutes long so when you sit down to view it, make yourself comfy, grab a cup of joe and enjoy it.

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lWeYa0_5bc[/video]


Last edited by GoFirstClass; 12/14/17 10:21 PM.

"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
A Word from Our Sponsors
#569769 - 12/15/17 08:17 AM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,426
On Holiday Offline
Daddy
On Holiday  Offline
Daddy
Admiral

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,426
PA and Smith Mountain Lake
I grew up not far from Lake Ontario, I took my wife there and there were 3 foot waves. She didn't think I lived near the ocean and couldn't believe those waves were from a lake.


2008 Honda Goldwing Trike
2006 Regal 2400
2004 Dodge Ram 2500
2003 Ford F-150
2002 Harley Davidson Roadking Classic
1998 Honda Civic


#569770 - 12/15/17 08:46 AM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,389
captkevin Online content
Admiral
captkevin  Online Content
Admiral

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,389
Chicago, IL
Very cool.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#569771 - 12/15/17 12:27 PM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,014
GoFirstClass Online content
Retired Boating Bum
GoFirstClass  Online Content
Retired Boating Bum
Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,014
Pasco, WA
Kevin, I'm glad you liked it. For me, that was probably the best 42 minutes I've spent in a long time.

OH, you should have taken her out there on a day when the waves were really kicking up. I've see Lake Michigan and Lake Huron with 6' and larger waves and it's really something to see. Mama Nature's power is amazing to behold.

I grew up on Saginaw Bay and, while they didn't specifically show it, when they would zoom in on the drained lakes it was easy to see how flat the bottom of the bay is.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#569772 - 12/15/17 04:26 PM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,389
captkevin Online content
Admiral
captkevin  Online Content
Admiral

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,389
Chicago, IL
Lake Michigan has a wide range of conditions. I have actually water skied behind my 1st boat - 1980 Steury 17' on a calm day. Was out with a friend in are younger not so bright days in a 186 Rinker in 6' waves - although it was a very short run.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#569773 - 12/15/17 07:16 PM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: captkevin]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,875
Dock Holiday Offline
Admiral
Dock Holiday  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,875
Lake Geneva, WI
Originally Posted by captkevin
Was out with a friend in are younger not so bright days in a 186 Rinker in 6' waves - although it was a very short run.



I did the very same with an 18' Chaparral BR many decades ago. Launched out of Great Lakes Naval Station, beached the boat just South of the harbor's break wall, and then fell asleep on the beach. I awoke a short while later to find that the weather had changed and the seas were 4' to 6'. I only had to go about 1/4 mile to get to the harbor entrance, but wow, what a trip that was.....Luckily I had not ventured very far as the harbors are few and far between in that area.

#569774 - 12/16/17 12:47 AM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,014
GoFirstClass Online content
Retired Boating Bum
GoFirstClass  Online Content
Retired Boating Bum
Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,014
Pasco, WA
It's funny that you guys talk about the waves on the Great Lakes. When I was growing up on Lk Huron we didn't have a power boat but a good friend had a 16' Thompson wood hull boat with a 50hp Johnson. We thought nothing of being out there jumping waves and running in 3'-4' waves.

Now, around here on the Columbia, people get off the water when there's a 1.5'-2' chop. Go figure. I guess it's what you get used to.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#569775 - 12/17/17 01:27 PM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 7,193
MarkHB Offline
Dressed for dinner
MarkHB  Offline
Dressed for dinner
Admiral

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 7,193
CA
A very interesting video.

Talking about draining the Great Lakes. California is talking about running a pipeline from the lakes to CA for water. Sounds good to me. We need it.


24' Monterey Explorer
Honda PWC
http://www.picturetrail.com/markhb

Golf!! Waste of a good gun range.
#569776 - 12/17/17 05:31 PM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,014
GoFirstClass Online content
Retired Boating Bum
GoFirstClass  Online Content
Retired Boating Bum
Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,014
Pasco, WA
Mark, what you need it for is to put out those fires that are burning in many parts of the state.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#569777 - 12/18/17 06:01 AM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: MarkHB]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,936
jtheile Offline
Admiral
jtheile  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,936
North Ridgeville, Ohio
Originally Posted by MarkHB
A very interesting video.

Talking about draining the Great Lakes. California is talking about running a pipeline from the lakes to CA for water. Sounds good to me. We need it.


Keep your hands off our water. You have a ocean full of water, build a plant to make it usable.


Joe
Four Winns 225 Sundowner
#569778 - 12/18/17 12:11 PM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,772
Jack T Offline
Admiral
Jack T  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,772
Southern California
"Keep your hands off our water. You have a ocean full of water, build a plant to make it usable."

Believe it or not, we have seven active desalination plant in California, including Carlsbad, northern San Diego County, the biggest in the Western Hemisphere. Here's a map of the California desalination plants, seven operating from Carlsbad north to Monterrey/Salinas.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=12fw0sl9pmbCN5FCbPeSEK0aIv3Q&ll=34.93836900983308%2C-119.6184915&z=7

The following Feb, 2017 article is from the link below it.
"The $1 billion Carlsbad facility, meanwhile, is the largest in the Western Hemisphere, providing 50 million gallons of fresh drinking water a day and serving 400,000 people, making up 10% of the area’s water supply. The San Diego County Water Authority is paying for the project under a 30-year purchase contract."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kensil...t-for-water-in-a-clean-way/#63e9c2e377c8

Wikipedia about the Carlsbad plant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_%22Bud%22_Lewis_Carlsbad_Desalination_Plant

What Happened To All The Proposed Desalination Plants in California?
https://www.planetizen.com/node/894...-desalination-plants-proposed-california

Santa Barbara has a smaller output plant
https://www.santabarbaraca.gov/gov/...medium=Desal&utm_campaign=QuickLinks


Have a great day of boating
2012 Monterey 224 FS,
300 HP Volvo Penta with catalytic converters

#569779 - 12/18/17 02:18 PM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,014
GoFirstClass Online content
Retired Boating Bum
GoFirstClass  Online Content
Retired Boating Bum
Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,014
Pasco, WA
Jack, I readily admit that I don't have a dog in this hunt, but I must say that I believe a majority of the country would not back CA building a pipeline all the way across the country to take water from the Great Lakes.

First of all, the environmental permitting would take years and years. Environmentalists would tie you up in court for decades. Then, the cost of procuring the rights of way for the pipeline would be monumental, and the cost of the construction of the pipeline many times more. And all that would have to happen AFTER the environmentalists would relax their grip on your throats.

Rather than build a pipeline, why not construct more water treatment plants? I'd bet you could get the permitting done in a much shorter time and the construction done quickly.

If your Carlsbad plant supplies 10% of the needs of the people, a handful more of those could get the job done and likely faster and cheaper than a pipeline.

The secret to that might be to make one set of plans and duplicate it on several locations rather than do all the design work separately for each plant. I'm certainly not an engineer, but why reinvent that wheel if you already have a working set of plans?


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#569780 - 12/18/17 07:11 PM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,389
captkevin Online content
Admiral
captkevin  Online Content
Admiral

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,389
Chicago, IL
Can't see the possibility of a pipeline ever happening. Even if it did the cost would be astronomical.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#569782 - 12/18/17 10:58 PM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,129
casualboater Offline
Admiral
casualboater  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,129
Highland, Michigan
I am of the opinion that if you want Great Lakes water, come on over! We have a lovely state.

I did see a report once on the cost of moving the water to the west, and astronomical doens't even begin to describe it. I recall that beyond the initial construction costs, the ongoing costs to pump and move the water were unsustainable. It was a pleasure to see that, not gonna lie.


1989 Larson DC 190
2007 Saab 9-7x
#569783 - 12/19/17 09:55 AM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,389
captkevin Online content
Admiral
captkevin  Online Content
Admiral

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,389
Chicago, IL
There was just an article in the paper here about how expensive the water is getting in Chicago. The further you are the more you pay. It seems the certain suburbs that were in early then have the right to resell the water to other suburbs further down the line. They published the rates & there is quite a range in rates. The town we live in was only incorporated in 1990 & we have a private water company & our water bills are pricey.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#569784 - 12/19/17 11:36 AM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,772
Jack T Offline
Admiral
Jack T  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,772
Southern California
"Jack, I readily admit that I don't have a dog in this hunt, but I must say that I believe a majority of the country would not back CA building a pipeline all the way across the country to take water from the Great Lakes."

My intent in was not to support a pipeline from the Great Lakes (dumb idea for many reasons that are too big to overcome), but to simply report that we already have some desal plants in California. I didn't come out and say it, but personally, I believe increasing the number of large desal plants would begin to adequately address our needs--and has already, albeit on a small scale.


Have a great day of boating
2012 Monterey 224 FS,
300 HP Volvo Penta with catalytic converters

#569785 - 12/19/17 01:25 PM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: Jack T]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,014
GoFirstClass Online content
Retired Boating Bum
GoFirstClass  Online Content
Retired Boating Bum
Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,014
Pasco, WA
Originally Posted by Jack T
I didn't come out and say it, but personally, I believe increasing the number of large desal plants would begin to adequately address our needs--and has already, albeit on a small scale.

Now THAT makes sense. You're parked right next to the largest water source in the world and it just makes sense to tap it rather than pipe it 1800 miles from the Great Lakes.

We're pretty lucky out here in the Tri Cities. We get our water from the Columbia River which flows right through town so the cost is relatively low, and our power comes mostly from nuclear (Columbia Generating Station) and hydro (dams on the Columbia and Snake Rivers). My monthly payment to the city for water and some other stuff is $85 on a budget plan and for power it's $110/month on the budget plan. That's to heat and cool a 2650 sq ft home. I ain't griping a bit.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#569790 - 12/21/17 11:06 AM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,994
Parrott_head Offline
Admiral of Vice
Parrott_head  Offline
Admiral of Vice
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,994
Interesting video.

Water rights in Oklahoma are a convoluted mess. There are treaties with the tribes that go back into the 1800's that factor in to distribution. We dam up a lot of our rivers and then sale to Texas what would have flowed them naturally if we hadn't put dams in. There is a constant court battle going on over Texoma. Where our place is located there is abundant ground water but it is high in sulphur compounds. As a result you cannot drink it but its great to irrigate with as the ticks and chiggers hate the compounds.


Former owner of a 2002 Four Winns 234 FunShip
'16 F250 4x4 Oil Burner
"Hey, if I'm a Vice Admiral, which vice do I get to claim?"
#569819 - 12/21/17 04:44 PM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,129
casualboater Offline
Admiral
casualboater  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,129
Highland, Michigan
I did some reading once on the dammed rivers in the southwest and the water right for lower states and whatnot. Mind boggling to say the least. I was most amazed to find out that some states are unable to access any significant amount of the river in a down year as they have to pass a certain amount on no matter what the weather conditions. I know this knowledge is old hat to many, but for someone from Michigan/midwest, that's just not normal.


1989 Larson DC 190
2007 Saab 9-7x
#569828 - 12/21/17 07:21 PM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,994
Parrott_head Offline
Admiral of Vice
Parrott_head  Offline
Admiral of Vice
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,994
Casualboater, Lake Texoma has to provide at least "X" amount of water down the Red River due to requirements of barge traffic.....


Former owner of a 2002 Four Winns 234 FunShip
'16 F250 4x4 Oil Burner
"Hey, if I'm a Vice Admiral, which vice do I get to claim?"
#569829 - 12/21/17 07:56 PM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,014
GoFirstClass Online content
Retired Boating Bum
GoFirstClass  Online Content
Retired Boating Bum
Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,014
Pasco, WA
And the states that border the Snake and Columbia Rivers have to release a certain amount of water (higher than normal flows) to help the salmon in their migration upstream to spawn. All of that in the face of the fact that the release of higher than normal flows results in higher than normal levels of nitrogen in the water which is harmful to all the fish species in the rivers.

They have shown great results from barging the salmon smolt down the rivers but that doesn't relieve them of the mandate to release the extra water.

Go figure.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#569840 - 12/22/17 09:48 AM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,389
captkevin Online content
Admiral
captkevin  Online Content
Admiral

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,389
Chicago, IL
Water is definitely a tricky deal. Can't live without it but too much or too little is a problem.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#569915 - 12/27/17 01:56 PM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,389
captkevin Online content
Admiral
captkevin  Online Content
Admiral

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,389
Chicago, IL
Just came across an article about the private water company that handles the town where we live.

http://graphics.chicagotribune.com/news/lake-michigan-drinking-water-rates/privatization.html


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#569917 - 12/27/17 02:43 PM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,772
Jack T Offline
Admiral
Jack T  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,772
Southern California
Kind of knocks a big hole in the supply (you have plenty of water on the big lake) and demand (relatively low because your year-round weather is pretty high in precipitation) concept we learned in school. Of course, that theory relies on a free market, which utilities are not.

At our mountain home at Lake Arrowhead has one primary source of water--the lake, and because we get so little precipitation, conservation is very important to keep the lake usable. We typically pay $90 a month for water and sewer, whether or not we are using the home. That sucks! Same thing with trash pickup--we pay even if we haul our trash home. Go figure.


Have a great day of boating
2012 Monterey 224 FS,
300 HP Volvo Penta with catalytic converters

#569924 - 12/28/17 03:06 AM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,772
Jack T Offline
Admiral
Jack T  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,772
Southern California
Check This out! Photos of Lake Erie that cant be perceived by the naked eye.

https://blog.boathouse.ca/forces-of-nature-at-work-fantastic-photography-lake-erie-by-milton-davis/


Have a great day of boating
2012 Monterey 224 FS,
300 HP Volvo Penta with catalytic converters

#569925 - 12/28/17 08:38 AM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: captkevin]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,936
jtheile Offline
Admiral
jtheile  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,936
North Ridgeville, Ohio
Originally Posted by captkevin
Just came across an article about the private water company that handles the town where we live.

http://graphics.chicagotribune.com/news/lake-michigan-drinking-water-rates/privatization.html



That's some expensive water. My highest bill this past summer was $75 for 5000 cubic feet or 37,000 gallons, sprinklers ran a lot and drain and fill hot tub. Sewage was $113 but had $78 deducted from that because 2nd water meter for water used outside.

My city buys water from two other cities but has it's own sewage treatment plant.


Joe
Four Winns 225 Sundowner
#569930 - 12/29/17 08:28 AM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: captkevin]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,099
2Suns Offline
Admiral
2Suns  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,099
Peoria,IL
Originally Posted by captkevin
Just came across an article about the private water company that handles the town where we live.

http://graphics.chicagotribune.com/news/lake-michigan-drinking-water-rates/privatization.html



The article mentions the situation here in Peoria with IAW. The subject of buying the water system does come up every so many years. As a general statement, I agree that a municipality is better off owning their own water distribution system. But, with our poor leadership here's how I see it going:

- city pays way too much money for a water distribution system that has parts that are over 100 years old.
- city creates water utility to manage and operate it.
- water utility is overseen by city leadership making it inefficient because, well, that's what city government does.
- any profit that is generated is sucked out the utility and used for more stupid public/private projects that are doomed to fail from the start.
- water distribution infrastructure continues to fail with no money to repair/replace.
- city government raises water rates after a campaign of tv and radio commercials saying how the citizens need to do this to protect our interests.
- people will buy it without holding our leadership accountable.
- they again suck the money out of the utility (after a water main main reconstruction project along a major road so everyone can see it. With signs thanking the constituents for their money)
- a few years later they say they need another rate increase and we start the dance all over again.


By the time they had diminished from 50 to 8, the other dwarves began to suspect "Hungry.-Gary Larson
#569931 - 12/29/17 12:59 PM Re: Drain the Great Lakes......... [Re: GoFirstClass]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,014
GoFirstClass Online content
Retired Boating Bum
GoFirstClass  Online Content
Retired Boating Bum
Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,014
Pasco, WA
2Suns, I'm sure there are others out here who, after reading your post, are thinking along the lines of "dang, he lives in a city much like mine!"


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Admin 

Sponsors
New Topics
New US Navy Patrol Boats in 2018
by Jack T. 04/24/18 01:18 PM
Battery Charger Died/What to buy
by Boatbottom. 04/21/18 08:55 AM
CHAPARRAL
by canuckchick71. 04/16/18 12:28 PM
Spring 2018 - NOT!
by Boatbottom. 04/16/18 11:45 AM
A much better trip this time.
by GoFirstClass. 04/14/18 10:52 PM
Need a few more prayers.
by Silverbullet. 04/07/18 08:41 PM
Florida Keys next Winter
by Dave R. 04/07/18 08:30 AM
2018 USASA Nationals
by Ladybugskater. 04/02/18 11:18 AM
Fastest 24' Bowrider--And Other Configs
by Jack T. 03/24/18 04:22 PM
New boat dock!
by Cycleboater. 03/20/18 04:05 PM
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 76 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
canuckchick71, Captjim, DaveyJisOK, TeapotJane, firstboat
5439 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums23
Topics37,123
Posts562,068
Members5,439
Most Online252
Aug 5th, 2017
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0