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#497898 - 09/04/10 11:17 AM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: Al]  
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Silverbullet Offline
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Boise, ID
It's hard to say. The scratches came because the cover plate with the screw was taped to the top during shipping instead of being installed where it belongs. After getting shipped across the country, it happened.

This is one of the rare cases where I am having issues since I bought it from an unauthorized Alpine dealer so the warranty is not through alpine. I've had great luck with other companies, so it is what it is.


James
2002 Cobalt 226 VP 8.1GIDP
2007 Chevy 2500HD Crew Cab Duramax
1988 Suburban 3/4 Ton
2000 Subaru Forester


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#498410 - 09/12/10 11:42 AM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: Silverbullet]  
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And this thread goes on and on. Still trying to figure out the amp issue since the replacement came scratched. I am in communication with them and hopefully can get this resolved ASAP.

I did get pictures of the inside of the smoked subwoofer and thought I would share.






They believe that the speaker was either overdriven, had bad distortion or the amp was passing straight DC. In every case they say it was not mfg defect in the speaker. They are willing to give me a new one at half off which I will likely take. I was hoping for a free replacement since I know the speaker was never even driven, the RMS matched and the amp was new. To me, it is a question of what ruined what. Did the amp ruin the speaker or the speaker the amp?


James
2002 Cobalt 226 VP 8.1GIDP
2007 Chevy 2500HD Crew Cab Duramax
1988 Suburban 3/4 Ton
2000 Subaru Forester


#498417 - 09/12/10 02:13 PM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: Silverbullet]  
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Looks like a well built speaker. Suspecting that bad amp, I'd take their 1/2 off offer and walk...

(It also says something about the company, in doing a detailed fault/failure analysis. Most larger companies would probably just toss it, and work out the details with you one way or another (no consolation or full consolation)

As a company, they've already loss money on the item, considering the labor it took to do the analysis.


2002 Rinker 212 Captiva
Merc 5.7 EFI Alpha
Trail-Rite Trailer
1999 GMC 'Burb
#498418 - 09/12/10 02:34 PM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: kenhdog]  
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I plan on taking the 1/2 off of the new one. Before I hook up the replacement amp to the new speaker I will test it for AC voltage instead of DC.


James
2002 Cobalt 226 VP 8.1GIDP
2007 Chevy 2500HD Crew Cab Duramax
1988 Suburban 3/4 Ton
2000 Subaru Forester


#498440 - 09/12/10 07:50 PM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: Silverbullet]  
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Al Offline
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I can almost smell the burned wiring.


President and CEO - Napmoor and Doolittle.


2004 Mercury 270 Dinghy.
2016 Grand Design Reflection 29RS 5th Wheel
2016 GMC Sierra 2500HD SLT 6.6L Diesel

previous boats:
1995 Carver 325
1999 Four Winns 268
1999 Four Winns 225
1996 Rinker 180
#498458 - 09/13/10 04:38 AM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: Al]  
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Al Offline
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One thing that is interesting to note, for those that insist on fat speaker wire, look how small the speaker wire is on that voice coil.




President and CEO - Napmoor and Doolittle.


2004 Mercury 270 Dinghy.
2016 Grand Design Reflection 29RS 5th Wheel
2016 GMC Sierra 2500HD SLT 6.6L Diesel

previous boats:
1995 Carver 325
1999 Four Winns 268
1999 Four Winns 225
1996 Rinker 180
#498466 - 09/13/10 10:45 AM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: Al]  
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Originally Posted By: Al
One thing that is interesting to note, for those that insist on fat speaker wire, look how small the speaker wire is on that voice coil.





It's funny how that works. I wonder if there are multiple strands being used.

When I used to race radio controlled cars many years ago, we sometimes ran a 12 wind single with wire that looked like a rope or other times, it might be a 12 double with 2 smaller wires, a triple, or even a quad. In fact, the motor builders would even mix sizes of wires to adjust the chracteristics of the motor.

In reality, speaker wire does not need to be as big as some think, especially when going to multiple speakers as you would with a normal amp. A single sub might be another matter. My understanding with too small of wiring comes from voltage drop and heat build up. In a speaker like this sub, it has cooling in place to help cool the coil. Regular wiring does not have that so heat can build up over time. I do run 8 gauge for the sub, but everything else is 16 gauge.


Last edited by Silverbullet; 09/13/10 01:04 PM.

James
2002 Cobalt 226 VP 8.1GIDP
2007 Chevy 2500HD Crew Cab Duramax
1988 Suburban 3/4 Ton
2000 Subaru Forester


#498542 - 09/13/10 08:16 PM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: Silverbullet]  
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Al Offline
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Actually there are no voltage drop issues in speaker wire as it is not DC, but an AC signal.

The thing of import though is series resistance in the speaker wire. If you can think of a speaker voice coil as a LC Tank Circuit, the series resistance has the effect of dampening the Q of the tank circuit - or in layman's terms, it affects the frequency response of the speaker.

To minimize frequency response changes in the speaker, the rule of thumb is that the DC resistance of speaker wire should be no more than 5% of the speaker's impedance. That works out that for a 25ft run, 14 or 16AWG wire will provide less than 5% resistance. Of course, longer runs will require a larger speaker wire.

But the reason here is DC series resistance that affects the speaker's frequency response, not to be confused with DC voltage drop across the wire, in DC applications, which is not applicable in this case.

I cannot recall seeing anything but solid wire in a speaker's voice coil. Not to say there are not stranded versions out there. That would be interesting.


President and CEO - Napmoor and Doolittle.


2004 Mercury 270 Dinghy.
2016 Grand Design Reflection 29RS 5th Wheel
2016 GMC Sierra 2500HD SLT 6.6L Diesel

previous boats:
1995 Carver 325
1999 Four Winns 268
1999 Four Winns 225
1996 Rinker 180
#498546 - 09/13/10 09:01 PM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: Al]  
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For all I know all speakers used solid wire, The motors I was talking about used 3 or 4 seperate solid rires. Each soldered at the armature, but each running seperately. The most seperate wires I ever saw on one motor was a 13 turn, 6 wind. That is it had 6 seperate solid wires that were turned 13 times around the magnet on the armature.

I digress.


James
2002 Cobalt 226 VP 8.1GIDP
2007 Chevy 2500HD Crew Cab Duramax
1988 Suburban 3/4 Ton
2000 Subaru Forester


#498637 - 09/14/10 06:47 PM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: Silverbullet]  
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Al Offline
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That is kind of interesting about winding motors that way. What effects do the different size wires have on the motors... or is it more or less voodoo science.


President and CEO - Napmoor and Doolittle.


2004 Mercury 270 Dinghy.
2016 Grand Design Reflection 29RS 5th Wheel
2016 GMC Sierra 2500HD SLT 6.6L Diesel

previous boats:
1995 Carver 325
1999 Four Winns 268
1999 Four Winns 225
1996 Rinker 180
#498681 - 09/14/10 11:28 PM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: Al]  
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Originally Posted By: Al
That is kind of interesting about winding motors that way. What effects do the different size wires have on the motors... or is it more or less voodoo science.


Changing the number of winds (single, double, triple, quad, quin, sext) would change the power curve of the motor. A 12 single for instance might have such a steep power curve that you could not control wheel spin making it harder to control and wasting a lot of power. A 12 triple double would come on a little smoother, then a triple would be smoother than a double.

Using the different gauge of wires changed the characteristics a little more. I think that the 2 strands being larger than the other one allowed it to be a little faster. This was a long time ago and I was sponsored by a motor MFG in Los Angeles. I knew what worked, but definitely did not understand all of the little pieces. At most of the big races, a tuner from the company would come out to maintain and tune the motors every race.


James
2002 Cobalt 226 VP 8.1GIDP
2007 Chevy 2500HD Crew Cab Duramax
1988 Suburban 3/4 Ton
2000 Subaru Forester


#502974 - 11/21/10 11:33 AM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: Silverbullet]  
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Sometime this week, this project should be officially complete. I am winterizing this weekend which really is just annual maintenance stuff. While doing that I will be installing the replacement amp and sub that are sitting in my garage. That just leaves the head unit cover panel and it's done. Only took me 6 months to finish round 1.

Now it is time to upgrade the stereo in the truck. Not planning on too major of a job on that one. I am going to use the kicker amps that I originally bought for the boat in the truck. Change the head unit to either a Pioneer AVH-4200 or Alpine IVA-W203 and swap out the speakers. I already have a box under the back seat that is waiting for 2 10's. 6" 3 way speakers in the back doors and 6 1/2 components up front. Kick panel enclosures are on my mind as well. I am wanting to add a back up camera at some point and both of those head units will take a back up camera. They are also dual zone meaning the first mate can watch a video in the back of the truck if I add video monitors, the rear speakers can put out the movie sound and I could listen to music up front. The rear speakers will run off the head unit as those are not that important and I don't want to add a 3rd amp.

This should be interesting.

Last edited by Silverbullet; 11/21/10 11:49 AM.

James
2002 Cobalt 226 VP 8.1GIDP
2007 Chevy 2500HD Crew Cab Duramax
1988 Suburban 3/4 Ton
2000 Subaru Forester


#507263 - 02/13/11 07:24 PM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: Silverbullet]  
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Bear_Cobalt_226 Offline
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WI
Well James,

I'm blown away, and speechless... I thought I was diseased... This must be one of the most kick butt installs I've ever seen. Your wiring, and layout is totally pro! I'm sure I'll be asking some questions, and may copy where you mounted the GPS. I'll most likely start a thread for my upgrades. I plan on GPS, charging system blue seas type with VSR (charging relay) Speaker replacement, with 10" sub located under port side glove box (kick panel area), i-pod docking, moving the Alpine amps the previous owner installed. Getting rid of the 10 CD changer, new batteries, on-board charger, and some other tinkering I'll come up with for sure....... Like I said. WOW dude! Flippin awesome!!!!!!!!!


Bear

" Jackson Lee "

2000 Cobalt 226, 7.4 gi VP-DP F7's
2001 GMC Yukon 5.3L, SLT, Auto, 3.73:1 ratio, 4 wd.
#507273 - 02/13/11 09:42 PM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: Bear_Cobalt_226]  
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Admiral
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Copy away. If you have any questions, ask away.

The blue sea add-a-battery is a nice addition and I am glad I put it in.

For your sub, take a look at the Wetsounds XS-10 sub. It can be done free air or in a small box. I was going to go with 2 10's, but there were none in the area when I was working on it so I decided to go with 1 12.

For Ipod docking, someone came out with a jack similar to the round one I used but it has USB and 3.5mm in the same jack. I can't remember the brand, but someone else posted it on this board as well. Of course it came out like 2 weeks after I put my system together.

I've thought about doing an on board charger, but it is not tops on my list. During the season it all stays charged fine as I turn the batteries off when she is not being used. During the winter, I disconnect the batteries. They make some cool ones that do many great things.

If you are looking at the best in batteries, look at the Sears Die-Hard Platinum batteries. The larger one is a rebranded odyssey AGM and those batteries are awesome! Finding battery trays for them is tough, but they are killer batteries.

CD changers really are useless in today's environment. An Ipod carries way more and is easier to control. To think, I originally was going to install an old omnifi in this system. Glad I didn't.


James
2002 Cobalt 226 VP 8.1GIDP
2007 Chevy 2500HD Crew Cab Duramax
1988 Suburban 3/4 Ton
2000 Subaru Forester


#507312 - 02/14/11 10:02 AM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: Silverbullet]  
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Al Offline
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Sb;

You know, the best projects are the ones you never finish... they just go on and on.

Me thinks you are perhaps at that threshold with your stereo project... funny


President and CEO - Napmoor and Doolittle.


2004 Mercury 270 Dinghy.
2016 Grand Design Reflection 29RS 5th Wheel
2016 GMC Sierra 2500HD SLT 6.6L Diesel

previous boats:
1995 Carver 325
1999 Four Winns 268
1999 Four Winns 225
1996 Rinker 180
#507320 - 02/14/11 11:19 AM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: Al]  
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Silverbullet Offline
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Originally Posted By: Al
Sb;

You know, the best projects are the ones you never finish... they just go on and on.

Me thinks you are perhaps at that threshold with your stereo project... funny


It will be done this year, at least as far as it will ever go, for now!!!


James
2002 Cobalt 226 VP 8.1GIDP
2007 Chevy 2500HD Crew Cab Duramax
1988 Suburban 3/4 Ton
2000 Subaru Forester


#507324 - 02/14/11 12:45 PM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: Silverbullet]  
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Al Offline
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Glad you added "for now". I do like your thinking...


President and CEO - Napmoor and Doolittle.


2004 Mercury 270 Dinghy.
2016 Grand Design Reflection 29RS 5th Wheel
2016 GMC Sierra 2500HD SLT 6.6L Diesel

previous boats:
1995 Carver 325
1999 Four Winns 268
1999 Four Winns 225
1996 Rinker 180
#507382 - 02/14/11 09:45 PM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: Al]  
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Originally Posted By: Al
Glad you added "for now". I do like your thinking...


It started as just adding an amp and some tower speakers and look what it turned in to. I can only imagine. The only think I really don't want to do is pull the amp racks out. That is just a PITA to think about.


James
2002 Cobalt 226 VP 8.1GIDP
2007 Chevy 2500HD Crew Cab Duramax
1988 Suburban 3/4 Ton
2000 Subaru Forester


#515187 - 06/12/11 10:22 PM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: Silverbullet]  
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Thought I would revive this thread for the hell of it. That and I hooked up the sub amp and the new sub that burned up last year. All worked fine.

I do need to tune it though as the bass was not really hitting hard.


James
2002 Cobalt 226 VP 8.1GIDP
2007 Chevy 2500HD Crew Cab Duramax
1988 Suburban 3/4 Ton
2000 Subaru Forester


#515191 - 06/12/11 10:32 PM Re: 2010 Stereo Upgrade (kind of took on a life of it's own) [Re: Silverbullet]  
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Bear_Cobalt_226 Offline
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Cool dude!

I found out after the fact, I bought a sub that requires a sealed cab, I should have purchased a free air speaker. I'm thinking I may just glass a box around the one I have. It should work out nicely...

Peace!


Bear

" Jackson Lee "

2000 Cobalt 226, 7.4 gi VP-DP F7's
2001 GMC Yukon 5.3L, SLT, Auto, 3.73:1 ratio, 4 wd.
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