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#490023 - 06/25/10 10:53 AM Father-Son Relationship  
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PhatboyC Offline
Always Need a Bigger Boat
PhatboyC  Offline
Always Need a Bigger Boat
Admiral

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Ottawa/Ontario
In another thread, CharlesS relation with his son made me think of mine.

I'm 30 now but I would say when I was around 24 some of my views of him/parents changed. When I wasn't working my second job on the weekends I was always invited for boating with my parents at the cottage. Never though to bring more than my swimming trunks and sun cream. One day both my father and mother at different time made a hint that I should bring my own beer once in a while.

This really surprised me since my role model, my grand-father, is the opposite. When I was young both our families always went to eat steak on Sunday and he didn't want anyone to bring anything, beer or wine. When we went out to restaurants my grand-father always paid for the whole family. Always though that's how it was done in our family. Kind of pay forward if you will.

But that summer day when I realize it wasn't so with my parents it kind of disappointed me. After this, every time I visited I always had my cooler. Of course I would treat him but when he offered me some of his beer I always feel weird, even to this day...

With my own kids one day (hopefully soon) I want to be like my grand-father. When the kids are older and come for visit I want them to feel as welcome as I can.


-------------------------------
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#490027 - 06/25/10 11:18 AM Re: Father-Son Relationship [Re: PhatboyC]  
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deepv Offline
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deepv  Offline
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Admiral

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SoCal
On Father's Day my 26 y.o. son wanted to go hit a bucket. Guess who paid... ME!!!!!

I thought that he should have but whatever.


72% of fatal boat accidents are caused by
boaters that haven't taken a safe boating course.

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#490032 - 06/25/10 11:41 AM Re: Father-Son Relationship [Re: deepv]  
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GoFirstClass Offline
Retired Boating Bum
GoFirstClass  Offline
Retired Boating Bum
Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,148
Pasco, WA
It's a fine line we walk as parents of adult children when we start feeling like they should start contributing. Between GW and me we have 6 grown children. Two are married, the others not.

When we have family gatherings GW and I always pick up the tab. Now that we're getting VERY close to retirement and the big bucks will disappear, I've been talking to/with GW about the kids starting to pay their share.

From my childhood I always felt like if someone else paid, I should be ordering one of the least expensive meals on the menu, or at least below the midway point. That mindset doesn't seem to have carried down to this generation.

I cringe when I see them order wines that are $13-$15 PER GLASS and I can't help but wonder if they would do that same thing if they were paying for their own meal and drinks.

It's not an easy solution but I think I'm going to start putting my foot down on this....assuming, of course, that GW allows me to do that.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#490045 - 06/25/10 12:19 PM Re: Father-Son Relationship [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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trooplewis Offline
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trooplewis  Offline
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San Diego
Originally Posted By: GoFirstClass
I
I cringe when I see them order wines that are $13-$15 PER GLASS and I can't help but wonder if they would do that same thing if they were paying for their own meal and drinks.



LOL, I pay as long as they do not exceed $13-$15 PER MEAL

#490051 - 06/25/10 12:33 PM Re: Father-Son Relationship [Re: trooplewis]  
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Wet Doggg Offline
Admiral
Wet Doggg  Offline
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Rockford, Michigan
This is a hard one. Being 36 and with kids now I do think about this more. My mom and my dad as well as my wife's parents are all generous. But my wife and I still pick up a tab here and there. I think this makes them feel good and know we appreciate when they pay. We are also the only couple (3 on my mom and 5 on my dad (divorce)) that do this. The other 2/4 just accept that parents should pay.

If you have a good job and are over the age where you live at home, say 23 - 25...why would parents need to pick up the entire tab for a weekend to make you feel welcome. If I went to see my parents or my grandparents who are still alive and do not at lease bring something or pay for a portion of the weekend I feel like a sponge. I will teach my kids the value of money, I will also be happy to pay tabs and such as they get older and start to have familys of their own. However...this will come to a halt once they take it for granted and do not appreciate it.


2007 Tige 22i - Current
2000 Sea Ray 410 Express - Sold
2003 Sea Ray 320 Sundancer - Sold
2000 Four Wins 230 Horizon - Sold
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1999 Four Winns 205 Sundowner - Sold
#490052 - 06/25/10 12:33 PM Re: Father-Son Relationship [Re: trooplewis]  
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Bowline Offline
Boatless in LV
Bowline  Offline
Boatless in LV
Admiral

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,281
Las Vegas, NV
I have this view: If I have invited either or both of my kids (son and daughter, both adults) out for a meal I expect to pay for the meal. I don't expect for them to "watch" what they order, but then again, they are not the type to order the most expensive things on the menu either. If I've invited them out on the boat, I bring the beverages, etc. If they want to bring anything along that's cool too. I also provide sunscreen for all that are aboard. That's part of being a host.

If I'm invited out for dinner by either of them, I don't expect to pay.


2001 Cobalt 206, 280hp V/P DP - SOLD
2003 Toyota 4-Runner Ltd
#490055 - 06/25/10 12:37 PM Re: Father-Son Relationship [Re: Bowline]  
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BToran Offline
Admiral
BToran  Offline
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Northport, New York
i think it's the reponsiblity of all parents to pick up meal tabs as long as they are alive. i'm expecting to change my opinion as soon as my oldest are grown.


Bruce Toran
Former Owner of a 1996 Carver 320 Voyager
-----------------------------------------
"Don't Eat Anything Bigger Than Your Head"
#490060 - 06/25/10 12:46 PM Re: Father-Son Relationship [Re: trooplewis]  
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Jayson Offline
Vice Admiral
Jayson  Offline
Vice Admiral

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 162
Chinook, Montana
This is a very interesting topic. I am 33 and have 3 young children. My son is the oldest of them and he is 8 will be 9 in November. Right now he is my best friend he is a huge athelete for such a young age, 3x National place winner in wrestling, and starting QB for football, does MMA and everything else in between. We are so close at this point I dont think I could ever hint to him or my daughters for that matter to BYOB.

However GFC makes a great point. I was raised the same as far as not ordering the most expensive items... but there are a lot of people out there that do not seem to worry in this regard. I always kid with my wife and kids and tell them their graduation presents will be a nice set of luggage, because when their out of school they are out of the house. I guess though I never really thought what should be appropriate with an adult kid.

Not to ramble on so long or to get too off subject, but extended family is just as bad. Next week we celebrate the 100th anniversary of our farm. My wife organized a great family reunion at the lake that is just minutes away from the farm place. It now seems that everyone is looking at us for food, and it brings up another question. Should I be soley responsible for fuel for the boat when taking out so many people for 4 days??


2007 Monterey 194FS
5.0L VP GXI (270hp)
#490064 - 06/25/10 01:11 PM Re: Father-Son Relationship [Re: BToran]  
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PhatboyC Offline
Always Need a Bigger Boat
PhatboyC  Offline
Always Need a Bigger Boat
Admiral

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,212
Ottawa/Ontario
There is a fine line. Like Wet Doggg said appreciation is key. If they take it for granted and do not reciprocate in others ways, like helping you when needed then your not doing anyone a favor by spoiling them. The worst is if your now grown kids don't reciprocate or appreciate you equally. Then why would you spoil them equally? I see this from my parents and in-laws and it burns me. I'm thinking take a stand parents. There not young kids anymore where you can't show favoritism.

I did lots at the cottage for my parents. 4 hours of grass cutting, wash the car/boat. But after I realize I would never actually get to even drive the darn boat, finally at 27 I decided to buy my own. Now I let my father cut his own grass, wash his own cars and winterize his own boat. I have my own stuff to maintain and its enough. He lets me park my dock and boat lift at the cottage. I am grateful for this, which is why I am happy every year to remove or install his docks and lift in the water which are a pain compared to mine.


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#490068 - 06/25/10 01:17 PM Re: Father-Son Relationship [Re: Jayson]  
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On Holiday Offline
Daddy
On Holiday  Offline
Daddy
Admiral

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,465
PA and Smith Mountain Lake
I get stuck with every meal in my family. My wife has no job, my son is too cute to pay. Seriously, patriarch pays in our family. I order what I want as long as I would order it if I was paying.

I have a BIL who makes big bucks, when the whole family gets together he picks up the tab including when his parents are with us. We had 20 at Outback. He will come to you and say that water is ok to drink. The one time someone else offered to pay, he ordered the largest soft drink imaginable. Boy did that tick me off but I am over it now.

In my circle of friends if you get invited over everyone asks what should we bring to help.


2008 Honda Goldwing Trike
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2002 Harley Davidson Roadking Classic
1998 Honda Civic


#490076 - 06/25/10 01:48 PM Re: Father-Son Relationship [Re: On Holiday]  
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FreshWaterLover Offline
Admiral
FreshWaterLover  Offline
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Posts: 2,395
Burbank, IL
Having kids in the 24 to 28 year old range I can identify with your parents. Seriously. With your childhood memories, they could be just a little cloudy, for one, clouded by the vision of what a child sees and what is really happening, OR it could be that you and your family went over to grandma and grandpa's house occassionally, not several times a month, or every weekend. i don't mind footing the bill when Nicole and the kids come up and spend time for the weekend, and even then, she'll sometimes bring a special treat for a barbeque, or pitch in with some foods even though its not necessary. That happens maybe every other month, she lives 6 hours away and works weird hours.

However... my son goes out to the boat EVERY weekend with us... yeah, he has to bring SOME of his own beer and pitch in for supplies to a point. We always end up paying for meals eaten out, and even when he brings his own he ends up drinking and eating stuff of ours. That's fine. And I know he doesn't have much money so we don't ask for him to pay a 'fair share'... he can't...(gas and stuff like that) but he certainly isn't going to freeload either.

We aren't poor, but we aren't rich either. We spend pay our bills on time, have very few debts, and spend money to play the way we want to, after working for 30 years it sure is our right, I think. But we can't afford to pay for him to play all the time too without pitching in some. He can stay home if he doesn't want to contribute a little.

I think you might see things a little differently if you're fair about it. And, in a few years when you're kids are older, you might really see things differently if one starts to take advantage of your generosity.


Tami

2013 Ocean Kayak Torque
2013 Bass Tracker Pro Team 175 TF

"The more you learn, the more you have a framework that the knowledge fits into" - Bill Gates
#490077 - 06/25/10 01:52 PM Re: Father-Son Relationship [Re: On Holiday]  
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Cycleboater Offline
Admiral
Cycleboater  Offline
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NC (Lake Norman)
I have a relative that is a millionaire many times over and he told me that I was only family member that ever takes him out or makes a grocery/beer run on my tab while visiting at their lake house. I believe he genuinely appreciates it even though it is a small gesture. He didnt say it, but I believe he feels taken advantage of.

#490102 - 06/25/10 05:02 PM Re: Father-Son Relationship [Re: On Holiday]  
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tpenfield Offline
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tpenfield  Offline
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Cape Cod, MA
Things were rough for me in my young adulthood. . . When I'd go visit my parents, I had to bring my own beer. smile

Last edited by tpenfield; 06/25/10 05:04 PM.

Regards, Ted

Formula 330SS

My Boat Web Sites
#490104 - 06/25/10 05:19 PM Re: Father-Son Relationship [Re: tpenfield]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,682
Admin Offline
Admin  Offline


Admiral

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,682
Cyberland
I do not often talk of my personal life here, but will relate one thing that makes my life worth living.

I am lucky enough to have my soon to be 28-year old son living close by. It is rare that more than a few weeks go by when he calls me up asking if it's OK for him to come by for a couple beers.

Who buys the beer matters not at all between us. If I have enough in the house, I'll tell him to come on over. If I am running low, I say as much and he will stop to pick some up on his way.

Not sure where or when I first heard the term, but it is a VERY good one that I live by with those I love be they family or friend. Ready?

"It all evens out in the wash."

Truth to tell... I would ALWAYS pick up the tab to spend time with my son. That we don't keep score is all the better.


Mike

BoatingABC.com
My imaginary friend thinks you have serious problems.
#490107 - 06/25/10 05:50 PM Re: Father-Son Relationship [Re: Admin]  
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Finger Lakes Boater Offline
Admiral
Finger Lakes Boater  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,248
Takilma, Oregon
Originally Posted By: Admin
"It all evens out in the wash."


Spot on, Mike!

We are very fortunate that our adventurous son set out on his own shortly after his 18th birthday. Now 20, we see him every few weeks and he calls every few days just to chat.

When we stop by his place, he ALWAYS offers me a beer (out of his supply). He knows where my cooler is and feels free to help himself---but often shows up at the place with half a rack as a gift. There's no keeping score and no need.

He's learning to be thrifty and live on a modest income, but he doesn't "expect" to be carried. I'm delighted with his attitude!


I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of moneyed corporations which dare to challenge our government in a trial of strength, defy the laws of our country. Thomas Jefferson "Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will seek to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of a few, and the Republic is destroyed." Abraham Lincoln
#490108 - 06/25/10 05:53 PM Re: Father-Son Relationship [Re: Admin]  
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Jayson Offline
Vice Admiral
Jayson  Offline
Vice Admiral

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 162
Chinook, Montana
Great point Admin... Like I said earlier, my kids are far to young for this conversation, but I find it interesting. I know I am this way with my friends, One time they buy next its me, nobody keeps track, we just enjoy each others company, and it all evens out over time.


2007 Monterey 194FS
5.0L VP GXI (270hp)
#490109 - 06/25/10 06:09 PM Re: Father-Son Relationship [Re: Finger Lakes Boater]  
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Frantically Relaxing Offline
Admiral
Frantically Relaxing  Offline
Admiral

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Posts: 11,762
We only wish our 28 year old son would get a job.

And I'm not talkin' 'bout the "ok, you've had a long enough vacation, isnt' it about time you went back to work?" job...

No, I'm talkin' 'bout the "Hey, you're 28 freakin' years old, isn't it about time you FINALLY got a job???" job... He has less than $500 in his social security fund...
rolleyes

Glad we got 5 other kids. It takes all 5 just to balance out the BS from the 1...


[Linked Image]
#490111 - 06/25/10 06:52 PM Re: Father-Son Relationship [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
Joined: Mar 2003
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Philr Offline
Admiral
Philr  Offline
Admiral

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Posts: 3,140
Rock Island, IL
My 2 sons are now (omigosh!) 44 and 40. Have a great, fun, relationship with them both. From the time they left for college, they've been self sufficient, and we get along as much like friends as father/son. We go pheasant hunting, fishing, drag races, beers/cigars, etc together, and it's just great. I trust either to take my boat when they want.

There's been a slight role-reversal starting, inasmuch as they look out for me vs other way about. Nice - don't mind a bit.


'08 Chaparral 246SSi VP5.7GXiDP

My wife says that I spend too much time talking to random people online. What do you guys think?
#490112 - 06/25/10 06:54 PM Re: Father-Son Relationship [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
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Posts: 741
Cobalt24sx Offline
"Rough Draft"
Cobalt24sx  Offline
"Rough Draft"
Admiral

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 741
Virginia
My four year old keeps eating all MY Oreo's! help

Ok, ok, truth be known, I share them with my little buddy. He's shown me new ways of eating the Oreo. I'm clearly the apprentice when it comes to Oreo consumption. I Love our Father-Son Relationship.

My nephew is 24 and living at home. He does very little around the house and assumes Mom and Dad will be paying for everything. It annoys me to no end that the boy doesn't even mow the lawn for them. I would feel obligated to take out the trash, clean the house, mow the lawn and do laundry at a minimum. If he would only show some appreciation.

When I graduated from High School I left home the day after my graduation party. Not because I wanted to get away but because I wanted to start making my way in the world. I went to college that summer to get a job and start learning my way around. When school started that fall I had a leg up on all the other freshmen. I paid/financed my own way through school and when I graduated I only had a few years of student loans to pay. "A hand up and not a hand out" is one of my favorite motto's. It's served me well.


"Rough Draft" 2006 Cobalt 24sx Volvo 5.7L GiDP F5's
Curiosity killed the cat, satisfaction brought him back.
#490123 - 06/25/10 10:27 PM Re: Father-Son Relationship [Re: Finger Lakes Boater]  
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SALTY_DAWG Offline
Admiral
SALTY_DAWG  Offline
Admiral

Joined: Jul 2009
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Lincolnshire, IL
The message to our kids should be simple.
Take as much as you like now - it only comes off your inheritance later!


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