Finally, someone else is stepping up to the plate for plug-in electric vehicles. We had a teaser from Chrysler this morning and here's the full release, with pics:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/23/chrysler-llc-debuts-dodge-ev-jeep-ev-and-chrysler-ev/

Ok, so I have a dumb (Or maybe not so dumb :)) question. Isn't the technology in the Volt and a couple of these Chryslers the same as a diesel locomotive? IE generator to power electric motors? What is so new and innovative. Batteries I can understand, but this isn't really a new technology is it? Are the electric motors just playing catch up?

Electric vehicles will never really catch on until they find a way to provide AC in the summer and heat in the winter and not drain the battery pack. Our use of electricity for accesories in our vehicles is too high to ignore, and if you add all the energy demands, is will be a long time before we can get away from the combustion engine. Our best bet will always be a small engine working at highest efficiency to charge the battery pack and letting electric motors do all the up and down work.

The heat solution already exists: heated seats and steering wheel, augmented with a plug-in heated jacket. I use heated grips (30 watts) and an electric jacket (130 watts) all the time on my motorcycle (I was using them both <1 hour ago), and heated seats have been around for ages. Heating the body this way is vastly more efficient than trying to heat the entire interior of the car. Cooling is more difficult, but as someone who has owned several cars without AC, I can assure you it's not exactly a must-have, everywhere in the US... I'd gladly do without it here in NH, if I could have a reasonably priced plug-in hybrid that could get me to work and back every day without ever needing to use the engine.

Why are A/C's some complicated? Drive the compressor with a small electric motor. Problem solved. It will eat into the range....but there is no way around that. A/C remove energy from inside the car. In order to do that, they consume energy. As we all know, energy is not created or destroyed. So be it, you have 5 mile less all electric range.

Try doing without AC in Oklahoma and Texas. Aint going to happen. The heat factor can be resolved if you can convince people to wear battery powered suits that have heating devices installed. The main point is that people love their conveniences and are willing to pay for them. With enough money, you can also get AC in the suits.

As far as the electric motor drives for AC, I agree that that will be the way to go in the future, but do not underestimate the demands of AC. It is not like we are talking a major investment to go with a gas-electric hybrid. A small 10-20 hp engine that has all the best technologies may be all that is needed for a small commuter. By running at its peak efficiency, it may give an equivalent of 120+ mpg. And if the motor only kicks in when the battery is below 50%, it is likely that a plugin charge would last for most commutes.

The big issue is making something like that economical enough so that most people can have one for just commuting. Long family travels or group hauls are going to require something a lot more weighty. The potential is there, but we may need to have some major changes in regulation and manufacturing thought.

My SIL says that she was looking at one of those asian mini trucks that many are buying. A place in Welch, OK is buying them and fixing them up to resell. The catch is that they are still not cheap, they are not street worthy, they are used, and many have right hand drives. However, Vinita, Ok has approved them for in town use on the roads.

I agree Seadog, no A/C is ABSOLUTELY NOT ACCEPTABLE.

In Kansas, A/C is 100% required. No if, ands, or buts.

I don't think 20hp is nearly big enough to recharge a battery pack of this magnitude. Also remember, we're talking energy here. Energy cannot be destroyed nor created.

Just because you're using electric doesn't mean you're using less energy. The electrical drive train simply allows you to capture more energy (regen braking instead of heat) and reduce friction in terms of turning a big engine at idle. Otherwise, you're not saving any energy by going electric. Being able to store electrical energy is helpful because grid electricity is cheaper than small scale mechanical-to-electric is.

At any rate, my point is the car still is going to need a 80hp or so engine to be able to create enough (electrical) power to actually move the car. You may be able to reduce peak demands through stored energy but there still is a mean average you have to meet.

And remember, if it's going to be running for extended time, it must be built to do that, so a 80 hp engine is going to need to be 1.5 or more liters to do that. You probably only want to turn 3,500-4,000rpms max so you have to be able to get 80 from a rather slow small engine. I don't know power ratings, but it might be more efficient to run a slightly larger engine at 2,500 rpms. Pumping efficiency verse reciprocating internal friction all come into the equation. Atkinson cycle may be recommended, especially if higher rpms will be turned.

Well, geez, odd timing! I heard a blurb tonight that GM announced a new approach with their Volt.

The generator (driven by the gas engine) will no longer just charge the batteries, instead, most of that power will be sent directly to the powertrain.

This is more efficient because you do not have the energy loss in the form of heat from charging the battery. Additionally, the continued charging/depleting evidently might reduce the life of the battery (cycle count increases).

Just more info for ya. I might have been off a little on the engine size, I believe GM said they're using a 1.4L 4banger.

If electric motors work for megayachts and cruise ships (azipods) I don't know why it would not be more efficient for cars as well.

Rumor has it that the Tiger trucks-types from Asia may get state OK to be used on all non-interstate roads. I don't see it, but they are reported to get 50-60 mpg. I can see states or Congress making concessions for pure commuters that would suspend some of the current requirements, if they can find a happy compromise. Create a new class of single seaters, or at most dual seat short distance vehicles. Like the new class of aircraft, a small fuel tank and limited usage could have potential.

We have a couple micro trucks on campus, Seadog. One is operated by public safety. I doubt they would be operating if they were not legal? They do have license tags on them.

They are not street legal, but a campus is not a "public street". It is a gray area, but we have both the micro trucks and ATVs running around on the campus streets with no issues. Our grounds people use the ATVs for almost everything, and they travel on the city controlled streets when needed to get from point A to B.

If you go to most communities and try driving an ATV on even the side streets, you have a strong risk of being stopped by the police. But you have an issue of a duplicity of rules. It is illegal for a individual to drive an ATV or any other vehicle that is not street legal on public streets. However, it is perfectly OK for businesses, governments, and farmers to drive heavy equipment on public roads. It drives me crazy that the city here, put their water distribution by the airport, on the road that many people take to go to and from work. You have a road with no ability to pass, and backholes are always driving down it during rush traffic.

But there is a rule, beyond the laws, that excuses these lapses. It is part common sense, part wink, and part "what else can we do?". The rules our cars are built on, are based on a requirement to meet social needs. Many are based on the demand that cars be safer, and disregard cost and fuel mileage. If the public demands it, laws will be passed to allow ultra light cars and trucks that can meet a demand for increased fuel mileage.

Thirty years ago, the lawmakers listened to those who demanded we go no faster than 55 mph because it would save lives and save fuel. There is no doubt that they were right, but there is also no doubt that it was disregarded almost universally. It is not the first time that the reformers have tried to make us to be better people against our will. Nor will it be the last. We are ostracizing the smokers lately. How it works out, we will find out. If enough people scoff at the laws against non-street legal vehicles, to the point that law enforcement has to ignore it, then the laws will change.

Public streets here. Gators and ATV's should be legal with slow-moving vehicle signs. There are a couple of Gators running around here but all are equipped with SMV signs and they typically keep off the main roads. Part of the advantage of the Gators is to be able to cut across campus were road access does not exist. Public Safety actually has one of those small electrical cars. I think it's housing or some other organization that uses the micro trucks. FO uses full size trucks.