Here's what they're doing:



NOTHING! The dam* cretins should at the very least be able to figure out how to ENFORCE THE LAW!

This is making me sick.

I should have known better than to get on this. What color is the sky in my world? Right now, its blue. As far as the government coming out ahead on this, no one knows. But the same doom and gloom was going on about the bailout of Chrysler.

The fact is that stupid moves by so-called financial whizzes have put us in a tenuous position. If the only sufferers were those who were stupid, I would say let them go down with the ship. The problem is our economy is an interwoven system that loses integrity when it loses a link. These are major links and threaten the whole system. The best financial minds in the world are not going to agree on the solution for this. And none of them is in Congress. And financial opinions are going to vary from extreme to extreme. The whole system is a shell game, and it depends on the suckers keeping their interest. If they do, and continue to invest, everyone is happy. If they take their money and go home, no one wins and everyone loses. That is how our financial system works.

I hear a lot of venting, but no real solutions. I learned a long time ago that life is not fair. The crooks win far more than they should. I tilt at the windmills I can deal with and do what I can to influence those who tilt at the others. all the garbage about the bailout being illegal is nonsense. Government can do anything they want in a crisis. If it works, they go done in history as heroes. If it fails, there are plenty of armchair quarterbacks to skewer them.

As far as quoting Harry Reid or any other politician, they are a major part of the institution that put us here. They do not care who did what, but who else they can blame for it. You have the pundits coming out of the woodwork. It reminds me of an old con game. You get 16 people and secretly tell half that a risky stock is going down, and half that it is going up. Then you do the winners the same on another stock. After four rounds, there is one person that believes you to be a genius and you get them to make a major investment through you. It is the same with Congress, but they just lie about making wrong decisions to the public

I beg to differ. There has been AMPLE information posted on these pages on what INDIVIDUALLY and COLLECTIVELY needs to be done. That the REGULATORS, INVESTMENT BANKERS, CABINET SECRETARIES, and CONGRESS continue to do exactly that which puts your personal financial situation more and more at risk, and does so with NO PUSHBACK from the body politic is beyond understanding.

Printing money into existence bankrupts the U.S. Hank and Ben drew a line in the sand on Sunday night, and on Tuesday morning they crossed it.

You are now on the hook for Bear, Fannie, Freddie, and the once-18th largest company in the WORLD, AIG. GM and Ford have there hand out for $50B. Wachovia and WaMu are on the ropes. If the bailouts don't stop RIGHT NOW, the US economy goes into the toilet. We're right on the precipice, and the next step is a doozie.

An example of specific solutions, Seadog:

I heard that AIG has assets of over a trillion dollars?? Is that true? If so, that's the same as trying to panhandle $85 to play blackjack even though you have $1,000 stashed in your hotel room...

The trillion dollar number is what was bandied about. But "good will" and other such level 3 "assets" aren't always worth in the marketplace, what they're "carried" at on the books...

Assets less liabilities, AIG is a zero (or considerably worse).

I was reading today that the CEO of LB was earning $17k per hour. He leaves with his parachute intack, gets to keep his pocket change, despite the total destruction of his company on his watch. Nice work if you can get it.

I take strong issue with criticism I have heard of late of ordinary Americans for getting the nation into the sub-prime and credit card messes in the first place. For years, Americans have been told--almost scolded-- to spend money and enjoy the advantages of being Americans living in the most prosperous nation on Earth. Credit card companies and mortgage lenders actively, aggressively, go after working people with little or no concern for what people could afford or manage. How many CC offers do you get in any given month?

These institutions either misrepresent the terms and costs of their offers or outright lie about them. There is a pending class action suit by African-Americans in the Atlanta, Georgia, area against Washington Mutual Bank for deceptive, irresponsible and unethical mortgage lending practices. When 9-11 happened and the market began to fall sharply, President Dubya's advice to Americans was to "keep shopping."

We are, and have been, a consumer culture for a long time, at least since the 1920s, and no politican Republican or Democrat who has aspired to high office has ever advised the voters to live more frugally, to spend less and live more simply. That kind of advice would insure loss at the polls.

The various chambers of commerce would make sure of that. Yes, people should try to resist the nearly overwhelming temptations of a consumer culture bent on conspicuous consumption, but the prevailing trends of our society have made that nearly impossible. The American dream, so-called, has always had a home of one's own and a shiny new car and a new boat as primary objects of prestige and proof of success. And the neigbors and friends are all doing it. Having a Quaker, Ahmish or Puritan mind set is hardly attractive to most mainstream Americans.

One can argue that there should be a middle ground between an ascetic life-style and a slavishly hedonistic one; and I suppose there is, just not in my house. However, consuming and spending become as addictive as booze and dope for many people, and there has been little or no help for those who suffer from it. Indeed, we Americans have almost always been cajoled into overconsumption. Advertising is everywhere, and no one can totally escape it. Because overconsumption is so pervasive, it can be rightly described as a socially patterned defect, as Erich Fromm would term it. As such it is hardly recognizable as a serious problem that needs counseling of some kind. No one ever talks about crashes like we have seen today as any kind of real risk from this activity.

But will there be any help for those individuals who misjudged the performance of thier 'wealth funds' in the new bailout? Will we get a few months credit from AIG for helping out here on our auto/boat premiums? Some government entity going to make my mortgage payement for a month or two to help me out ????

I seriously doubt it.

CM, your post is typical of liberalism, victimolgy in this country. What, you got no balls to take a look at your own finances and take responsibility? Don't give me this... If you don't know your own abilities, you deserve it... capitalism thrives on a free market society, free to pick and choose what you buy, what you can afford. Blame the dumbing down of society from the leftist liberalism NEA for NOT teaching economics and self reliance (it takes a village my a$$).

Deal with it. I don't want to pay for your mis-management of your money...
B-freaking-S... If you can't read, you have no business transacting business PERIOD! Don't tell me that some unsuspecting, poor black person or any other ethnicity, has been taken advantage of... most states have a cooling off period in the case of a refinance, (3 days in CA to READ THE CONTRACT). Problem is it's easier to point fingers at you rather than me....

I am so sick of this sheeeeeit!

15 months of no paycheck can make one a bit on edge, especially after a few beers....

CigarMan, (and anyone else for that matter) forgive my abruptness,..... I offer my hand in brotherhood....

But my ship is sinking, (boating tie-in!) and it's no one's fault but mine. And when I read a post about all the reasons that this or that is happening,and pointing fingers to anyone other than one's own self, well, I have no sympathy, for I have no one to blame as well...

Were there blatent predatory lending practices? Yup. Was there deception? Yup. Should AIG, Fannie, Freddie, be bailed out? Nope.
But we all have to stand up and be accountable for our own actions, regardless of the outcome.
And, there is no way in hell that these CEO's should be allowed to reap all the benefits of the golden parachutes... millions of dollars in pay, pensions, etc.... they should be required to pay them back to shareholders.....

It's not up to them (my point)... it's up to the individual, not government....

Some of your best material in that post, Nu2. Thanks for that fine effort.

My post was simply making an observation about human nature Nu2. I never said one should not be responsible for ones own actions, just that it is very easy to be 'one of the herd' given the amount of streaming 'idio' one is bombarded with in our society today. I still feel putting all the blame on average Americans is unfair. We are the most marketed at society in the world. Ads come at us 24/7, everywhere our eyes look, they take in marketing messages. It's a relentless assault that starts with toy commercials while we're toddlers watching cartoons and continues the rest of our lives.

There is nothing wrong with personal responsibility for debt. The corporations my be scum, but the BORROWER is still at fault. Buyer beware.

Ii is also fair to say that some of the most intelligent people in the world work on Wall Street. They intentionally manipulated the system. They issued loans irresponsibly because they knew that they couldn't lose. They knew when these ARMs were issued that people would default on these loans. Moreover, they also knew that their money was guaranteed and they wouldn't even have to wait 30 years. Now the American people are left to foot the bill.

It's true that this meltdown was only possible if Americans exhibited those habits (like bad debt and credit management) instead of personal accountability, but each side of the argument holds a piece of the same truth.

And yes, I agree with both of them. Credit cards can be managed responsibly and renting/leasing is a better idea than buying if your credit is poor or you can't guarantee your income will grow over time (because the cost of living WILL).

But I know many indivuduals who are a prime example of poor debt management: thye scratch and borrow to make the utility payments, but then don't pay the rent... what good is paying the water bill, if the only way to benefit from it is to sneak up to the house after midnight and drink from the exterior spiggot?

Human nature is, individually, (afterall, we are alone in thought) shaped by those external and internal influences,.... whether they be from personal experiences or external input, they configure our perception... a political debate could be further influenced, but let's not go there.

Blame may not be the appropriate word. If you're referring to what we have to pay for the bailouts, I have to agree. We should not profitize profits and socialize losses, as has been so eloquently stated in these pages prior.. however, if you're referring to the lending crisis that got us here to begin with, then the average American IS to blame, for average Joe America needs to be smarter, more forthright in their understanding of contract law, and general business, and finances with which I harken back to the dumbing down of us all, Thank you Democrats. (ok, low blow, but a chance to toot my conservative, pro-voucher, neo-NEA horn)

You can point fingers in all directions, but this is a crisis of conscientiousness... a crisis in personal responsibility. The moral fibers of us all, the willingness to provide the best we can. It's all about blaming the other guy, afterall, I can't be wrong...

Now, after alot of bud's and watching a ton of old cars today (ever seen Route 66 celebrations? San Bernardino, downtown, 24 blocks of uncorked headers and the pungent sweet smell of rubber on pavement, pure exhaust,....mmmmmm. Where's my 57 cheby pick up (no mistake in spelling) I need to say nite nite!