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#431544 - 08/25/08 02:15 PM
Re: Looking for suggestions on Cruiser/size criteria
[Re: deepv]
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Admiral
Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 2089
Loc: Glen Cove, New York
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weclome to the forum (again). most 28 ft express cruisers will have an 8 ft 6 inch beam, because that's the maximum width for trailering purposes without special permits. for you and the wife for a weekend it will be ok but even if the aft sleeping area is wide open, 4 sleeping on that size boat will be pretty comfy, especially when you consider clothes, food, etc. that 4 people will need to bring along. a honda portable generator will be MUCH cheaper than a marine unit, but what is you're planing on needing the genny for? if it's normal stuff like lights, radio, tv, fridge, you may get by with a nice house battery setup. if it's to drive an air conditioner, then you'll need a genny.
_________________________
Bruce Toran
1996 Carver 320 Voyager
-----------------------------------------
"Don't Eat Anything Bigger Than Your Head"
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#431553 - 08/25/08 02:33 PM
Re: Looking for suggestions on Cruiser/size criteria
[Re: BToran]
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Warrant Officer
Registered: 08/25/08
Posts: 15
Loc: IN
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weclome to the forum (again). most 28 ft express cruisers will have an 8 ft 6 inch beam, because that's the maximum width for trailering purposes without special permits. for you and the wife for a weekend it will be ok but even if the aft sleeping area is wide open, 4 sleeping on that size boat will be pretty comfy, especially when you consider clothes, food, etc. that 4 people will need to bring along. a honda portable generator will be MUCH cheaper than a marine unit, but what is you're planing on needing the genny for? if it's normal stuff like lights, radio, tv, fridge, you may get by with a nice house battery setup. if it's to drive an air conditioner, then you'll need a genny. Thanks! We will not need to trailer the boat, as we do all our boating at the lake. As far as the generator, my main reason for needing it is to run the electronics as well as AC because the state marina does not provide shore power. Water and pump out, but no electric.
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#431567 - 08/25/08 03:26 PM
Re: Looking for suggestions on Cruiser/size criteria
[Re: bloomington_g]
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Nautical Alchemy
Admiral
Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 11541
Loc: Battle Creek/Grand Haven, MI
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Some boats do include the swim platform in their length on the state registration.
When I had a FW 268 Vista, it was I think, 25ft 9", but the registration was 28ft, 2" if I recall, as the registration included the bolt-on swim platform.
I talked to the state (MI) license bureau, and they told me that a bolt-on swim platform is not part of the length.
They also told me that if I would actually measure it, and provide a drawing, they would change the length. The important reason for doing so was that a lake nearby was restricted so that boats 26ft and over was a no-wake zone. Boats under 26ft could run at planing speed. But I got rid of that boat and got my 32ft boat (35ft if you add the bowsprit), so it didn't matter.
So, check with your state's DNR and see if anything like this is true. It could make a heck of a difference if you are looking at between a true 26ft vs. 28ft boat.
_________________________
"Yesterday's Dreams"1995 Carver 325 Aft Cabin  Posts are amateur opinion only. You assume all responsibility for any action you take as a result of reading my posts.
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#431571 - 08/25/08 03:48 PM
Re: Looking for suggestions on Cruiser/size criteria
[Re: KCook]
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Boating Bum
Admiral
Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 7759
Loc: Kennewick, WA
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Glenn, welcome back.
If you're looking for a used boat with a genset already installed, why not consider the 260 & 270 Sundancers.
They're easily trailerable if you should decide to do that, and are available with a single or twin engines and with or without a genset. I did a search on YachtWorld for Sea Ray boats in a 26'-28' length with a price under %60K and got 247 hits in your area.
If I were ever going to downsize, a 270 'dancer with twin 4.3L's would be on the short list. There's lots of room, they're well built, easy to get repaired if something goes haywire, and they handle very well.
There's plenty of room on a 270 to sleep 4 though it would be a pinch for 6. Pretty much the same with the 260's. Four people would work, 6 wouldn't.
One thing in your favor, with that many boats around the Great Lakes areas is you can make sellers be price competitive. Let us know how you do.
_________________________
"Liquid Asset" 96 SeaRay Sundancer 330  I just want to go boating!
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#431583 - 08/25/08 04:17 PM
Re: Looking for suggestions on Cruiser/size criteria
[Re: bloomington_g]
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Admiral
Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1651
Loc: Northwest Illinois
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Make sure you know what the LOA (length overall) is for a given boat. Manufacturers of Cabin Cruiser model numbers commonly give a model name/number that may not be reflective of the LOA. For example, Rinker's 260 Express Cruiser is actually 28'10"
If you are limited to 28' or less, you will find that most of the cruisers in this class have 8'6" beams. Some may slight exceed 9' but this tends to be the exception. Also, most LOA measurements include the swim platform and bow pulpits if molded into the hull
The two things you'll find that most 25-28' cruisers have in common is a single engine and no onboard generator. There are some exceptions but generally a rare find.
I know you mentioned that you are getting a reasonable deal on your slip but with a cruiser, having shore power allows you to take full advantage of all the systems when you are not using the boat i.e onboard battery charger, refrigerator. Be sure to factor in the cost of the portable generator in the overall scheme as well as the inconvenience of having to run, storage etc. The savings with the basic slip may not be as beneficial as it seems. Also, will the marina allow you to run a portable generator? If so, how would your slip neighbors feel about listening to this all night? Food for thought.
As for a brand that provides good roominess, well . . . . trailerable cabin cruisers are not always designed with spaciousness in mind. Some brands do a better job of headroom than others but generally most newer 25-28' cruisers have near identical interior cabin dimensions and layouts. When our kids were small, we could easily overnight but now that they are teenaged, four adults is quite cramped in our 26' Crownline.
Among the various brands, there is more variance in deck layouts and which is best depends upon your preference. For me, I wanted clear and unobstructed access to the cabin while preserving good forward bow access. Many cruisers designed the forward bow access into the cabin door. Seating layout also varies widely. I would imagine with two teenage daughters, lounging in the sun will be a priority for them. Perhaps a deck layout that includes a generous lounge seating arrangement.
Also a priority when your crew is mostly of the female persuasion is the bathroom. You can count on a small bathroom area in most 26-28' but one with a hatch or sidelight can greatly improve the natural light making it seem more roomy. Forget using the shower, most owners will use the marina facilities rather than subject themselves to the limited space.
One feature that tends to be popular now is a sink on the deck. Personally, I find these to be redundant and robbing of valuable deck real estate.
Putting brand aside, think about your typical day on the boat and how you'll use the boat. Do you beach frequently? If so, how do you intend on disembarking? Not always an easy feat from a cabin cruiser.
Lastly dont forget about engine performance. IMO - buy the largest amount of horsepower your budget allows. Not so much for top end but for the best low end, planing capabilities. You'll get lots of opinions on this but I would personally shy away from any boat with a small block i.e 5.0 or 5.7L
_________________________
1998 Crownline 268CR 7.4L B2
"La Vida Loca"
1999 Yamaha SUV1200 Waverunner
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#431615 - 08/25/08 06:18 PM
Re: Looking for suggestions on Cruiser/size criteria
[Re: etyppo]
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Lieutenant
Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 59
Loc: Chicago IL
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Here are some comments I saved when I was looking for my first cruiser. I believe these are Al's words. Very good read IMO.
"I don't like to comment on brands, that is to say if one brand is good or bad. When I do comment on a brand, its usually to point out an example, like brand XYZ has this feature I like or dislike.
In that realm of thought, I would like to offer things you should look for in a cruiser regardless of what brand it is.
A cruiser is expensive, very complicated, and has more systems than a typical bowrider or cuddy. For this reason, the features and design characteristics may become more important than the boat brand.
For instance, in a cruiser;
1. Does it have one or two batteries?
2. If multiple batteries, can they be charged by the engine simultaneously?
3. Does the boat have a head or porti-pottie?
4. Is the size of the holding tank adequate?
5. Is the size of the freshwater tank adequate?
6. Is the head/shower compartment leak proof?
7. Does the foredeck contain any trip hazards, and is it prone to slipping (i.e. is it rounded rather than flat)? Remember, the admiral might be up there each time you dock.
8. Does the windshield have a walkthrough to the foredeck?
9. Is there adequate steps to the foredeck from the cockpit?
10. Does the camper canvas go the full length, or is it truncated at the stern?
11. Are there ventilation screens in the camper canvas.
12. Is there adequate ventilation in the cabin?
13. In the head?
15. Is there a rear berth?
14. Is the rear berth adequate for adults, or kids only?
16. Does the rear berth have adequate ventilation?
17. Is there an adequate anchor locker, easily accessable?
18. Is there adequate storage room?
19. If your kid drops grape juice out of the refridgerator, can you pull up the carpet from the cabin floor?
20. Are maintenance items, such as freshwater pump and filter, shower sump, AC pump and filter, and other items easy to reach?
21. Are the portholes/windows in the cabin prone to leak?
22. Does the boat have trim tabs (which I believe are essential for a cruiser)?
23. Does the boat have the performance you are looking for?
24. Is the gas tank large enough?
25. Are deck fittings such as holding tank pumpout, and fresh water inlet easy to get to, and more importantly, to identify?
26. Is there a refrigerator?
27. If so, does it work on both AC and DC?
28. Is the cabin interior easy to keep clean?
29. Does the boat have an extended swim platform (highly desireable on any large boat with a camper canvas that stays on a long time)?
30. Is the camper canvas easy to put up and take down?
31. Is there shorepower (incredibily, this is/was an option on some cruisers)?
32. Are the sleeping quarters comfortable?
33. Does the front berth convert into a bed or dinette easily.
34. Does the head use freshwater or seawater for flushing?
35. Are the bilge pump(s) directly wired to the battery (via a circuit breaker or fuse), so they cannot accidently be turned off?
36. Are their CO detectors in the sleeping area(s)?
37. Does the boat have a hot-water heater that can be heated by the engine as well as shorepower?
38. If the boat has underwater thru-hulls, are the easily accessable, so they can be turned on and off?
39. And most importantly, is there adequate room on the transom for a properly sized boat name?
40. Do you really need to tow your boat?
41. Have you considered the total cost of ownership?
42. If 26ft or larger, it the boat NMMA "Yacht Certified"?
43. Does the boat have an automatic fire suppression system and vapor detectors?
44. Does the boat have a electric/alcohol stove or just an electric stove?
Some of these characteristics may not be important to you, but if you rank them accordingly to your needs, then it is going to be easier to select the right boat.
If you are contemplating used, cruiser models change occasionally - so depending on the year, the boat may or may not be attractive to you.
And for the record, my cruiser does not meet all of the characteristics above, but the ones it did not were not as important to me; which basically, is why the boat was a good match, and we purchased it."
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#431670 - 08/25/08 11:13 PM
Re: Looking for suggestions on Cruiser/size criter
[Re: hobbs]
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Admiral
Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 1040
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
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Here are some comments I saved when I was looking for my first cruiser. I believe these are Al's words. Very good read IMO.
"I don't like to comment on brands, that is to say if one brand is good or bad. When I do comment on a brand, its usually to point out an example, like brand XYZ has this feature I like or dislike.
In that realm of thought, I would like to offer things you should look for in a cruiser regardless of what brand it is.
A cruiser is expensive, very complicated, and has more systems than a typical bowrider or cuddy. For this reason, the features and design characteristics may become more important than the boat brand.
For instance, in a cruiser;
1. Does it have one or two batteries?
2. If multiple batteries, can they be charged by the engine simultaneously?
3. Does the boat have a head or porti-pottie?
4. Is the size of the holding tank adequate?
5. Is the size of the freshwater tank adequate?
6. Is the head/shower compartment leak proof?
7. Does the foredeck contain any trip hazards, and is it prone to slipping (i.e. is it rounded rather than flat)? Remember, the admiral might be up there each time you dock.
8. Does the windshield have a walkthrough to the foredeck?
9. Is there adequate steps to the foredeck from the cockpit?
10. Does the camper canvas go the full length, or is it truncated at the stern?
11. Are there ventilation screens in the camper canvas.
12. Is there adequate ventilation in the cabin?
13. In the head?
15. Is there a rear berth?
14. Is the rear berth adequate for adults, or kids only?
16. Does the rear berth have adequate ventilation?
17. Is there an adequate anchor locker, easily accessable?
18. Is there adequate storage room?
19. If your kid drops grape juice out of the refridgerator, can you pull up the carpet from the cabin floor?
20. Are maintenance items, such as freshwater pump and filter, shower sump, AC pump and filter, and other items easy to reach?
21. Are the portholes/windows in the cabin prone to leak?
22. Does the boat have trim tabs (which I believe are essential for a cruiser)?
23. Does the boat have the performance you are looking for?
24. Is the gas tank large enough?
25. Are deck fittings such as holding tank pumpout, and fresh water inlet easy to get to, and more importantly, to identify?
26. Is there a refrigerator?
27. If so, does it work on both AC and DC?
28. Is the cabin interior easy to keep clean?
29. Does the boat have an extended swim platform (highly desireable on any large boat with a camper canvas that stays on a long time)?
30. Is the camper canvas easy to put up and take down?
31. Is there shorepower (incredibily, this is/was an option on some cruisers)?
32. Are the sleeping quarters comfortable?
33. Does the front berth convert into a bed or dinette easily.
34. Does the head use freshwater or seawater for flushing?
35. Are the bilge pump(s) directly wired to the battery (via a circuit breaker or fuse), so they cannot accidently be turned off?
36. Are their CO detectors in the sleeping area(s)?
37. Does the boat have a hot-water heater that can be heated by the engine as well as shorepower?
38. If the boat has underwater thru-hulls, are the easily accessable, so they can be turned on and off?
39. And most importantly, is there adequate room on the transom for a properly sized boat name?
40. Do you really need to tow your boat?
41. Have you considered the total cost of ownership?
42. If 26ft or larger, it the boat NMMA "Yacht Certified"?
43. Does the boat have an automatic fire suppression system and vapor detectors?
44. Does the boat have a electric/alcohol stove or just an electric stove?
Some of these characteristics may not be important to you, but if you rank them accordingly to your needs, then it is going to be easier to select the right boat.
If you are contemplating used, cruiser models change occasionally - so depending on the year, the boat may or may not be attractive to you.
And for the record, my cruiser does not meet all of the characteristics above, but the ones it did not were not as important to me; which basically, is why the boat was a good match, and we purchased it." Great post hobbs and Al. If I saw this list before I got my Crownline and I wouldn't have bought it. I know personally I wouldn't want a cruiser without available shore power. I would seriously consider if the cost savings are worth it to stay in your DNR slip.
_________________________
2003 Four Winns 298 Vista Twin Volvo 5.0 GXI DP 
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#431722 - 08/26/08 08:06 AM
Re: Looking for suggestions on Cruiser/size criter
[Re: seabuddy]
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). I am looking for some advice/suggestions on cruisers. My wife and I want to move to a cruiser from our bowrider. There are some specific criteria as far as length and beam due to existing slip lease (I lease a slip from the state DNR for under $500 per season vs. $2500 and up for a lease at a private marina). The size specifics I need to stay within are max under 29 feet total length and less than 9ft beam. The boat would be used as a weekend getaway destination with overnights by my wife and me, and once in a while with our two teenage daughters. I know from looking at several boats that many cruisers in this size range are tight quarters for the rear berth or front area or both. Are there any recommendations for a cruiser that may fit the size restriction (28 feet) and not feel too small inside or up on deck? Are there any cruisers these sizes that offer an onboard generator, or will I better off forgetting this as a criteria and looking into a portable Honda? I know the questions I asked are broad, and that there are lots of boats to consider. I am looking for advice from those of you who may have had experiences with this size cruiser in order to cut the list down to the realistic good candidate boats to look for. Oh, and I am probably looking to buy used as well.
