Hi all.

I'm about to buy my first boat. I'm 30 and my family had boats while I was growing up. I am a novice, and I know the basics of boating (i.e., right of way, how to dock, etc.), but I don't have much advanced knowledge, for example, about engines, drives, etc.

I'm just looking for some general advice.

I'm on the great lakes (Buffalo), and I plan to use it for short outings with family and friends, the occasional overnight, and for fishing. One consideration is that I have a four month old baby, so safety is an issue (i.e., high walls).

I have narrowed my search down to a 24-25 foot mid-cabin cruiser. Sea Rays, Maxums, Chapperels, Rinkers, and Bayliners are the most common boats around here, and I've been told to avoid Bayliners.

I'm looking used, late model (2000+). I figure that, because of the economy and the price of gas, I should be able to find a deal. I'd like to spend around $30k, give or take.

however, if I buy now, I'll have to pay for winterization. If I buy during the winter, I'll save on the winter storage. But there are negatives to buying in the winter: I won't get this last month of the season to boat, and I won't be able to test drive it.

So I guess I'm just looking for some general information. What does everyone think of Rinkers, Chapperels, Maxums, and Sea Rays. When should i buy? What should I keep in mind when I buy?

I just want to be an educated buyer...

Thank you for the help.

Jonathan
Buffalo, NY

Jonathan --

I'm in Buffalo as well. I'd be happy to talk to you on the phone about this if you want.

Let me know.

Chris

Joanathon - First, welcome to the board. Buying a recent, but used boat is a great idea and the market for the type / size of boat you’re interested in is soft now, so you should be able to drive a good deal. Add Fourwinns to your list and don’t discount Bayliner as they can be fine boats, especially the more recent ones. The most important thing to do is to have a look at the boat yourself and to take along someone who knows boats. He (or she) can then tell you if the boat is good enough for the next step, which is a sea trial. If you like the performance, you need to get a survey done by a qualified surveyor. It will cost you some money for the survey, but you should be able to recoup most of it by having the current ownwer fix the major issues found, or he'll discount the boat and let you take care of it. Do NOT buy a boat without a survey as even a free boat gets expensive real fast if you have major problems with it. Also, don’t buy a boat without seatrialing it to see if you like the way it handles your local conditions, see how the engines run, see if it takes on water while running, etc. It's true that boats are sold cheaper in the fall because the new owners need to pay for winterization. However, that's just the nature of the business in the northern climes. My suggestion is to start your search now and take your time. Maybe you'll find a great boat this season, maybe it'll be next season. Also, check into the true cost of owning a boat (trailering vs keeping it in a slip, doing the winterization yourself vs havign a marina do it, etc, etc). During the offseason, take a safe boaters course offered by the Coast Guard or your local U.S. Power Squadron chapter.

I think that there was some ranking post previously.

Of course I'd put Sea Ray on top of that list, but I have a bias. That said, I have not had any problems with mine, except for the screw in the windshield that you snap the tether to to keep it open stripped out and the steering wheel insert that says Sea Ray on it won't stay put. Those are the only problems that I've had. Not anything serious at all.

Jonathan, if you buy one, make sure you spell it "Chaparral". It's not spelled the way it's pronounced!

I'd like to expand a bit on what btoran suggests, and that is cost of ownership.

In the size range you are looking at, you have three major options to how you want to use and store your boat:


1. trailer the boat, which may require a 3/4ton truck; there is quite a variance in the towed weights involved from boat to boat. This could be the most or least expensive option, depending if you already have suitable tow vehicle.

2. dry stack. Many marinas can handle a boat that size. You also either leave the boat at the marina all year, or optionally take it home each fall, if you have a trailer and (at least access) to a truck.

3. Slip your boat. Lease a slip for the season, with the same storage issues.

I am not sure what the costs are in your area, so I'll go with the typical costs in my area for a marina with access to the great lakes.

1. Trailering. Notwithstanding the cost of the truck and trailer, expect to pay about $25 to $50 per night for a slip (called a transient slip) for each evening. Trailer storage is an issue as most boat launches won't let you park your rig overnight, and not all marinas offer boat-launching on-site; and those that do often require a separate charge for trailer storage. If you stick with day boating, it can be done, but a 24~25ft cruiser is going to take some effort to launch everyday, especially with a youngster around. You'll be doing a lot of the work by yourself. But it can be done.

2. Dry stacking. Still need to rent a slip if you want to stay at a marina for the evening, but you won't have the trailering issue. Some marinas provide a few courtesy slips for dry stack customers at no charge, while others offer slips at a reduced amount. In our area, we would pay anywhere between $1,000 to $1,500 for dry stack service in the summer, and $500 to $1,000 for heated winter storage (no need to winterize). If you are not familiar with dry stack, your boat stays at the marina on a rack, usually one to four boats high. Call it a boat hotel. When you are ready to take the boat out, the marina forklifts your boat out of its storage rack and launches it for you. The process is reversed when you return. Many marinas have a wash down area as well that you can clean your boat prior to storage. If you look at the recent dry stack thread, you'll see some photos as to how the operation works.

3. Slip. This is the most convenient as all you have to do is arrive at the boat, and you are there. You can simply stay the weekend, or take the boat out. If Lake Ontario is anything like Lake Michigan, there will be some weekends where the lake will be too rough to go out. And, keeping the boat in the water does take some toll on the boat; you may have more maintenance, the boat will definately be more dirty, and you will likely have to bottom paint the boat as well. Expect anywhere from $2,000 to $3,000 for summer slip with all of the amenities (power, water, TV), and the same $500 to $1000 for winter storage.

The costs I am estimating are the price range in my area for the boat size you are contemplating. The costs seem to go up expotentially as you go to a larger boat.

Some marinas have options for outside or inside cold storage. But then you need to winterize your boat, its engine, water systems, and Air Conditioning if you have it. If the marina does this for you, its usually more expensive than if you simply store the boat inside heated storage. You can do these jobs yourself, but there is a bit of a logistical problem as the marina needs to put the boat out for you to winterize it, then return it to storage. Of course, this is robbing them of a job in their eyes, so some marinas are less willing than others for you to do this - and could charge you for relocating the boat. As I said, they are all differnt, so some research is in order as to what services and things a particular marina offers.

Some marinas give you a break on the summer slip or dry stacking if you also winter store, so it can mean that it is uneconimical to trailer the boat home every year.

The costs and options vary so much that the first question you should answer which option you want to look at. These costs are significant, and can affect the available budget for the boat. Good luck.

Great response Al.

Thank you all, especially Al, for the informative responses.

The only followup questions I would have are:

1) Can anyone recommend any reading on the basics of how a boat works? I feel I am most deficient in the anatomy of a boat. I'm just looking for the basics: bilge pumps, ballasts, etc.

2) Does anyone have any firsthand knowledge of the current prices for the boats I'm looking at? Anyone buy a 25' midcabin cruiser recently in the great lakes? I keep a close eye on boattrader.com and craigslist, but there are surprisingly few sales to establish my expectations on...

I can honestly say that probably the best best boat out there happens to be right in the range you are looking for. A 1999 Four Winns 258 would fit you perfectly.

If you go to boattrader.com you can see the prices of boats for sale. NADA.com has a boat section that give numbers on what they think a boat should be worth. Good places to start.

Happy hunting!!!!! You don't want to spell it Chaparral, you will want to spell it Four Winns!!!!

You don't need a book when you have us.

There is a lot of knowledge on this board, so ask away.

But if you are looking for a book, I think the first one you will want sitting on the shelf is "Chapman Piloting and Seamanship". I like your thinking, as cruisers have a lot of systems on board, HVAC, plumbing, and so on, and you will most likely want to service much of that yourself.

And one tip; although I am a fan of buying a used boat - especially a cruiser where it can depreciate tens of thousands of dollars, there is one caveat. If a previous owner has a lot of deferred maintenance, or goes to drilling holes in their boat, and does it wrong; it has the potential to damage the boat severely. So you not only will want to learn enough to spot that kind of thing, but this is one of the reasons you will want to hire a surveyor.

Many of the boats that are brokered are advertised on several websites. For the great lakes, I like Yachtworld; however, this is usually limited to dealers or dealer brokering boats.

The reason I like Yachtworld is that you can search by the great lakes region, and it does seem to be able to more rapidly scroll through the boats in the search list.

But you will be missing a great many boats that are listed by individuals. So I would look at BoatTrader as well.

I have never been much of a fan of Craig's List, but I know some folks have done pretty well there. It seems there is a lot of garbage on that website that it is not worth my time to sift through it.

I figure, if someone is serious enough to sell a $50K boat, they would advertise it properly. But, again, thats just my opinion, and if you like Craig's List; then by all means, use it.

And don't forget those Bayliners... As a newbie, I've found some great advice here. Like someone else said.. ask away..

Stay away from Tahoes, to many quality issues.

Al doesn't like Craig's List since he was burned by a couple of Nigerians.

If you are looking for used, there should be quite a few that'll meet your criteria in the $30K range. You might have to see a few not-so-good boats, but don't rush into anything without a proper inspection having been doen, and, don't buy without test driving the boat.

I would look at the rinker 250 or 270. They can be had for the low to mid 30's.

Thanks again for all the great advice.

Quick question: How to Glastrons stack up against these other brands?

I was never much of a fan of craig'slist either, but recently I have been browsing, and have seen adds placed on there from about a half dozen local dealers,marina's and broker's, trying to sell everything from boats , to parts, to boat slips. Apparently they must feel they get additional local exposure by posting there. I think they are right.

Try NADA and maybe take off 10% to 20% or BUC.

I only saw a Glastron cruiser once at a boat show.