This definately falls into the advice "my mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts".

http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/business/102403

The Commodities Futures Trading Commission (CFTB) has found that financial firms speculating for themselves or for clients hold 81 percent of oil futures contracts on the New York Mercantile Exchange....

81% you say?

The CFTB, after looking at its books, found that Vitol was buying oil contracts as investments, not to actually deliver oil, and at one point in July held 11 percent of all NYMEX oil contracts.

But the CFTB still does not think speculators are to blame.... huh?

I love the "it's just supply and demand" ... big business wouldn't EVER try to screw folks purposely. Plus, if folks can't get in with the high-flyers, too da** bad, it's their own fault. Fair? Who need's fair.

What shocks me is how many slugs buy into the false rhetoric.

Well, to furthur D-Rod's anti big business point, here is the straight percentages:



Ok, I know there has to be some lag time for the gas price to catch up, but not 1.5 months. I don't think the big oil companies are the ones gouging us right now though. It's either the refiners or the local (or non-local) station owners. Does anyone know how much the rack price has come down at the refinery?

So in this case, you are partially right D-Rod. While supply and demand is working, as evidenced by the lowering crude price, someone is manipulating the market, as evidenced by gas price reductions that are only half of what they should be.

Any time you have a middle man between the producer and consumer you have a price change. Usually an increase since no one goes into business to lose money. How someone can claim that those that buy something in high demand and sale it later without doing anything to process the product and then claim that does not effect the final price is beyond me.

It the same in any product. Any grain sells for "X" amount per bushel (Or hundred weight if cattle") speculators buy it hoping it will go up. They add nothing to the final product except their profit and the final consumer covers all of this.

This is one reason co-op buyers tend to pay lower prices for supplies, they toss in together and buy in bulk and take out some of the mid line costs.

Just my opinion, nothing else.

My beer would be cheaper if the grain futures did not effect it so much.

It would also be cheaper if you brewed it yourself. Consider...

I have brewed many a batch. I love it....
Just can't brew my own fuel...

Yes you can. Tis called Bio Diesel

Mark, any info on those crack spreads?

Not yet. I am out of town again. In Denver funny enough. Get back Thursday and then go to The Delta early Friday morning. Travelling an awful lot lately.

Mark

What the?????!!!!! I just wrote 3 new jokes. Only one has to do with oil.....sorta.

At the risk of inciting another riot here on BABC on oil topics, I will state that it is my considered opinion that it has been obvious for a while now that oil prices have nothing to do with the garbage reasons that are widely reported, and everything to do with profits.

+1

More proof that the oil business is out of control

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/10/news/economy/oil_officials.ap/index.htm?postversion=2008091015

1)How many oil platforms in the gulf total? Doesn't matter what part of the gulf...
2) How far apart are they?
3) What percentage of oil do they REALLY supply per rig? DOH! DUH?!?!
3) What's the circumference of a hurricanes "EVIL" winds? Can that 100 MPH take out the whole frickin gulf?
4) How many ships are waiting to unload an already existing overflowing reserve?

DOH! DUH! Wake up!!!!!!!!!

The station up by our shop went up 25 cents overnite. God [censored] dothead owners said it was the Ike approaching. I didn't buy but tossed in my 2 bits.

Gas and diesel has been pretty stable (neither up nor down) in the past week here.

What upsets me is all the made up reasons for price spikes. When oil prices go up, all the "experts" say "Well, the cost of gas is 75% the cost of oil". Then when oil doesn't go up, they say "Well the other other factors in the cost can cause price spikes". Well, the can, but only in relation to their overall percentage of the cost. And this Ike business is CRAP. No production has stopped yet, so why did the price go up? And who is truly profiting? The refiners or the local stations? It ain't Big Oil. Their money comes the from the crude prices, which are not rising like the gas did, over lunch yesterday.

I am not in a position to refute or validate such an assertion, being ignorant of refinery operations.

For all I know, they keep right on brewing gas and other petroleum distillates right up until the high winds blow a stack over.

Also, for all I know, they have stringent safety measures that demand curtailing volatile operations in the face of a significant chance of a Hurricane landfall.

I am sure most will guess my point is that many times we make assumptions based upon incomplete information and treat those assumptions as fact.

There's still gas at every station in this country that wants it, isn't there?

Fill up now...



From Gulf Gasoline Soars Most in 35 Years as Hurricane Approaches

These are not the only refineries but I would suspect we'll all see an increase today or tomorrow.

Billy,

You completely miss my point.

No I didn't. Until someone publishes real data of a gasoline shortage, there can be no legal, rational explanation of falling crude oil prices in relation to rising gas prices. Demand is down country wide (I think worldwide too, since we are most of the demand), and has been for a while. Nope this storm is just the latest excuse for some people to gouge. Plain and simple.

I have no problem with the huge profits posted by Exxon, et al, when the price was so high. But as I have stated, someone else is artificially keeping the gas prices high. Now is the time for an investigation.

And WHO do you wish to do said investigation?

Congress??

Of course not them. How about the FBI? They at least have the word "Investigation" in their title, right?!

Oh Boy, You need to do some research and learn some stuff.

I KNOW you're in a position to help us get started, Mark. Let the lessons BEGIN!

(serious invitation, here...)

I've just concluded that the golden rule has changed a bit...

He Who Has The Gold Makes The Rules.
He Who Has The Oil Has All The Gold.

Other than that...

Yep, me too Mark. Teach us how the prices are set. I've seen you reference before how Big Oil sets most of the price, but not the refiners. So far that had seemed to be the case. But now the wholesalers are raising the prices ahead of "possible" refinery damage, that hasn't happened yet. So who is making the profits these last two weeks? I'll read the numbers, if you have them.