thanks seadog, I was about to have a DNA test to see what species I was.

I think I've said it here before, but if you've had a bad experience doing business with someone, move on to someone else. Not everyone doing business with the public is crooked. You just have to find the good ones. And that's the bad thing. All the good ones, and there are more good than bad, get painted with the same brush, as in "all used car saleman are slimy crooks." Completely unfair to the good ones.

thank you, 2suns, as well, I'm starting to get misty over here.

Maybe the good ones should get a TV show or something to show how to treat a customer right.
The stereotypical Gold chain wearing, shirt open to the naval, do anything to get them in and keep them there with all the stupid promotions have (or hopefully HAD) "King of Cars" from Vegas.
Shows like that just reinforce the stereotype and leave a bad taste in the mouth, like last nights enchilada after a drinking binge.

and all lawyers are like Shark on TV, they used to be Perry Mason.

Its been done. "King of Cars" was on A&E for a while back in 2006. It was actually pretty interesting.

http://www.tv.com/king-of-cars/show/57836/summary.html

http://www.inbusinesslasvegas.com/2006/10/20/towbindodge.html

When I bought my last car (Honda Ody minivan) the selling dealership couldn't have been better (O'hare Honda btw). They were straight with me, offered the best deal around upfront and even threw in some extras. I was still on edge all the way through just wondering what trick was about to be pulled. Thankfully none were. I had just about given up after visiting numerous dealers and had decided just to keep our sedan a while longer despite having kid #3 on the way, but made one more phone call based on an internet owner's forum dealer tip. They had the best price without my even telling him what he needed to beat.

The extras weren't huge but nice. They included a rubber 3rd seat storage well liner and locking lug nuts for all the wheels. Salesman said they always include the locking lug nuts w/ all their vehicles. I already had the price of the extended warranty that I was willing to pay...again from the owner website (btw with Honda you can buy those from any dealership after the sale and the price is very negotiable). The finance guy matched the warranty price right away even though I didn't finance the vehicle.

The only laugher of the deal was the price their used car guy offered me for my Maxima SE. They actually ran out to the car as we were leaving and bumped their price up a few hundred...they were off by a couple grand though! The new car price was independent of any trade-in so it didn't matter. I sold it in a few days.

In shopping for various cars over the years I think the salesperson you randomly get, or better...ask for, makes a huge difference. Of course some of that falls on the dealership to keep their staff quality high. I've talked to my share of salesmen in cars, boats, real estate, mortgages, etc. that knew less than me about their product....some didn't know what they didn't know, some lied, some just didn't want to appear like they didn't know and some were smart enough to say "I'll find out" like mentioned in a post above. I've also dealt with professionals that made the process of spending money almost enjoyable; clueing me in on things I hadn't even thought about and making sure the deal process goes smoothly. I make every effort to deal with the latter if at all possible.

Holy Cow! This one got dragged through the mud and back to the cleaners again.

My intent was not to start a witch hunt thread for those employed in the retail auto business. As in any profession, there are sleazebags but broadbrushing an entire group is never fair nor deserving. (Although I do strongly encourage an all out war on those employed in the Insurance Claims Industry Sorry Billy! a little inside humor from the underwriting side of the house).

I simply thought it was interesting (and perhaps disheartning) that my status as an owner of a full size SUV would make me all but invisible as a potential buyer in todays market.

BTW - still looking for a car for my son. Possible a late 90's mid size, domestic SUV i.e Jeep Cherokee, S10 Blazer, Explorer etc.

Peace everyone!

I guess your take on that show was entirely different than mine. From my original post:

I viewed the guy as a shyster, The bling rings, hyping the salesman, the purple dude and the come on of "if you buy a car, you get to ring my gong." Superficial BS that IMHO was meant to hide that he was taking you for a ride.
Years ago I saw a Tom Peters story where he talks about Sewell Cadillac in Dallas. I don't remember any specifics, but he talked highly about how they treated the customer. There was a BMW dealer in Abilene that was very good, twice let me take a car home overnight, but when they didn't have exactly what we wanted, did what they could to ensure we still had a great ownership experience even though we didn't buy from them.

Thanks bperg, I appreciate the insight. Went to see the CRV last night and as I was walking up to it I thought..."what a turd" I thanked the guy for his time, and left, didn't even drive it.
The hunt continues and I'm armed with a 90 day unlimited use of AutoCheck.

Ha!

Yeah, Chop, what a character!

I met the owner of the Towbin dealerships back when I was in the business during a convention in Vegas.

I am friends with one of the producers/promoters of that show. It got its start as a one-time show on A&E about careers.

I was in Vegas once and attended a taping of the show at the dealership. The dealership is actually a LOT smaller than it appears on TV.

Believe me, you don't get to see ANYTHING on that show that they don't want you to see. Most of it was staged, and quite a bit of it was taped over and over again until it "looked" right. He does do some crazy infomercials on TV (in Vegas)though...

Do a search for the BBB and the lawsuits that have been filed against Towbin and Chop specifically. Stolen cars were also reportedly recovered, customized and re-sold out of their place.

But I'm sure that I am not telling you anything that you didn't already figure out on your own.

I bought GW's Infiniti from Sacramento Infiniti and have nothing but good things to say about the way they conducted business with me.

I told them the equipment and color I wanted in our first conversation. They didn't have one but the exact equipment but had one with the Nav package. They offered an additional $500 off if I took the one they had in inventory.

I agreed, they faxed me the invoice and I paid the agreed invoice price. They arranged all the paperwork and overnighted it to me. I sent it back with my downpayment check and when they got it they arranged all the shipping and sent the car to me.

I like working with people who give you their word, then stick to it.

I ordered my 2002 in July 2001 because there was no truck with the options I wanted on it on any lot w/in 500 miles of where I live. This was during the model year change-over and it took over 3 months for delivery as it was held up at the Mexico/U.S boarder after Sept 11. LeRoy (that's right and he's white), Fleet Manager at Fritts Ford honored his price of $300 under "invoice" (I know the dealership still got their hold back, but that is okay as I was nowhere near MSRP and they do need to keep on the lights and pay the mortgage on their building) when I took delivery on Sept 24, 2001. And I got the special financing that came out the week before for obvious reasons.

Like I said. Go Fleet... And this thread is going on forever.

Yeah, most folks' best bet is to deal direct with a fleet guy.

The "fleet" dept's of old, are no more.

Todays fleet dept's will gladly sell you a single vehicle. Most folks still think that in order to qualify to buy from the fleet dept, you have to buy a FLEET! Not so.

In fact, quite a few fleet dept's handle the "co-op" buyers programs. You know... Like AAA, Costco, credit unions, etc...

Also, the internet salespeople are usually found within the realm of the fleet dept.


Just a word of caution...

CALL the fleet dept FIRST, and make an appt to speak to someone that is ACTUALLY in the fleet dept.

Too many folks make the mistake of hitting the lot and just asking to speak to someone in the fleet dept. Believe me, whoever "ups" you will magically become part of the fleet dept and will run you through the regular process. You might be T/O'd to another salesguy that would be introduced to you as a "fleet mgr", but chances are it will just be either another sales guy or his "closer".

Make an appt BEFORE driving there...

That show didn't exactly enhance the image of car dealers. The interest rate that was being charged on some of the loans on the show had to be in excess of 25-30% based on the payments and the cost of the car they were buying. It was also amazing how many people came in upside down, bought a new car and added it to the cost of the car they were buying. It was a textbook case of "how not to manage your finances."