My favorite car buying story was after haggling for 2+ hours with a salesman who was trying to do ridiculous things like charge me extra for things that were standard on the trim level of the car I was buying, I was dumped in the F & I office. I had already lined up financing on the car at a good rate from my bank. The F & I guy insisted the rate I was getting was impossible and wanted to "call the bank to confirm it." He called, and claimed they quoted him a higher rate. I made him call again, took the phone and miraculously was quoted the same rate I had mentioned going in.

Defeated on that front, he then triumphantly announced that he could match the payment I was getting from the bank if I'd just "sign here." After reading the loan document, I found that the payment was in fact the same, but was for 60 months rather than the 48 I was getting from the bank. I really should have walked out at that point, but it was a car I really wanted that was in short supply and it was the only one in area at the time. After trying to sell me a few other things like an $800 wax job, they finally gave up and sent me on my way with the car.

On other hand, the last new car I bought took about 45 minutes from start to finish, I was quoted a very fair price going in without any haggling. The only negotiating I had to do was when the F & I guy wanted to charge me about 2X for the extended warranty compared to what it is available for elsewhere. He quickly lowered his price when I showed him the quote I had from another source though. I came out of that deal feeling a lot happier than the previous one.

It's an American right to bitc h. I think it's an amendment to the Constitution.

bperg; its a friendly discussion we're having. There is no need to be rude.

As I've already posted, I got into the car business afte I retired from LE. It was a culture shock for sure! But I preservered and ultimately worked my way up to dealer-partner and then we sold out. Am I glad to be out of the business? Heck yes!

I do not disagree with your statements! I have the unique opportunity to speak from both sides. Customer AND dealer.

To answer your questions...

1. Plenty! Of course, I would occassionally take folks out for dinner, but mostly I'd give them a fuel voucher so they could fill up their tank with gas. With todays prices, that would be quite a "spiff"!

We also gave out free fuel vouchers to folks that brought us their "customer satisfaction survey" so WE could fill it out and mail it in. Yep, that was "paying" for a good score, but we needed all of the help that we could get...

2. None. (but see #1)

3. Plenty! Contests between the salesmen and/or teams is a good sales motivator. They ranged from a dinner cruise on the Bay, to a party bus trip to Tahoe (with $$$), to a trip to Hawaii. Of course, management (me) got to participate on all of these as well.

But mostly, we had the "spiff" program. Usually reserved for the weekends, but occassionally during the week, we'd throw cash at our salespeople for a variety of "accomplishments". A complete "write-up" would get them a nickle ($5) (whether a sale was made or not). A sale would get them $20, plus we would stair-step it to $100 for a hat-trick (3 sales in one day). Plus we would throw in $200 for the top salesman for the w/e. We might also have an "envelope pull" spiff program. For each sale made, they could pull an envelope from the wall and keep what was in it. They usually contained $20 bills, but every now and then there'd be a hundred in one.

4. Never (me personally). Yes, I heard that it happens, but under my watch, NEVER.

5. It's called, "getting a commitment". It's part of the sales process.

That is also why when I go to BUY something, along with MY first offer, I write out a check for the full amount of MY OFFER to submit with the work sheet. It's a LOT tougher for a sales desk to hand a check BACK to the customer! Plus they know that I am serious and a CASH buyer.

6. Yes, many times a salesperson would either hang out in the sales office or sit in another sales cubicle for a few minutes before returning to the sales hut with a "counter offer". "Back and forth" as you might say...

7. Yep, part of the sales "game". It's trying to build urgency into the deal, and make the buyers feel (false feeling) like they are gaining the upper hand and getting the most for their trade.

There are plenty of sales "tactics" that are used on folks to make the sale. Some involve emotional manipulation, some physical, and yes, even deception.

And that was the hardest part for me when I got into the business. Lots of sleepless nights, so much so, that I almost blew myself out of it in my fourth month. I just couldn't look someone in the face and deceive them. Even if it resulted in me feeding my family.

I am proud of the FACT that I (for the most part) turned our place around to better both the consumer and the dealership. But it wasn't easy.

I started out in the marine business when I was 14, and am still connected to it. I've seen plenty of BS, but I never saw anything like the stuff that I saw when I got into the car business...

The reputation that the car business has is well deserved.

Does that include EVERY person and EVERY dealership in the business?

Certainly not.

the friendly gets tedious when someone paints my chosen profession, where I help a lot of people get a fair deal, and help with unforseen problems, with a broad brush and calls me a crook. That's not friendly, that's personal. That's why I said to be responsible and if you don't like a guy, give your business to someone else.

Both! It's not a matter of choosing, just prioritizing.
I'm in sales, commisioned sales, not cars. But as a sales person I too have the tendency to "profile" an account, that's not all bad. I would rather deal with an account "buyer" that was straight up, to the point, and honest about what they want and need, it saves a lot of time and I believe both parties are happier in the end, even if a deal hasn't been made. I try and approach car buying the same way, treat the sales guy with some respect, be honest about what I want and can afford, and offer a fair price for what he is selling. I agree with Indy, they have to make some profit on the sale, I just won't get ripped off, let the next guy that hasn't done his homework overpay.
I've bought many cars over the years, I've had good and bad experiences. I finally realized I can control the sales process, just like when I sell. Polite, honest, and make a fair offer. If they don't like it I won't bicker much, I just politely tell them "that's more than I think the car is worth, here's my cell number if you change your mind, thanks for your time" and I walk. Don't let it become a bad experience, no matter what he/she does you can keep putting them back on track with direct honest answers, if they keep it up, walk. I'm shopping for a car for my oldest now and have spent lots of time in the recent weeks test driving and speaking with used car dealers, I have yet to have a bad experience - so far.

It doesn't always work, when I bought the Armada I was looking at the Sequoia too, I made the Toyota salesguy cry, literally, my wife is a witness. But that's another story.

I see nowhere that you have been personaly accused of anything.

Gallup poll on the most and least honest professions.

You got to admit, some bad stuff has happened in the car sales business, and to an extent it still does. If you believe the Gallup Poll, many in your profession have degraded most folks opinion over many, many years, and I don't know how you can fix that, as bad opinions, once formed - die hard.

I have similar issues in my chosen profession.



I hope I never have occasion to run into a dealer that believes deception is acceptable. I guess I need to be even more cynical the next time I look for a car.

I don't know how we got on this topic anyway. I think will go back to posting about boats.

Hey Al and bperg, why don't you take a few steps back... and call insurance adjusters names for a while! Nobody likes them!

(Al one of your comments was very much "less than friendly", and only because troop seems like the nicest guy in the world did he not call you out. But I think bperg is justified in his responses, so far.)

This thread stayed civil only because I didn't see it until now...

No offense to Troop or Bperg, I'm sure you're BOTH honorable and helpful to your customers. And I'm sure you both know that puts you in the MINORITY in your profession.

A long time ago, I used to sell auto service at a national chain of tire stores. I was often offended that about half of my new customers assumed I was a crook before we'd even begun. With the benefit of hindsight, I'm now completely clear about why they might have that assumption!

So don't take offense, guys, when what is generally known to be true is spoken plainly. And give yourself credit for being an exceptional member of a profession often stocked with barracudas.

I hope you don't think that I condone deception in the sales process.

I do NOT.

When I started in the business, I only had boat and retail sales under my belt. As I already stated, I retired from LE prior to getting into the car business. I am now back in LE as a second (third?) career.

No one REALLY wants to hear the truth about an industry that most of us has to deal with in order to live our lives. No one wants to walk into a dealership knowing what kind of "tactics" might be used against them. Please don't kill the messenger...

I have answered all of the questions thrown out there with honesty and an willingness to speak frankly about my PERSONAL experiences in the business. I've said the good, the bad and the ugly. I don't think anyone in the business can deny anything that I have posted here as not being true. Again, not ALL dealers/salepeople participate in these activities. Ther are PLENTY of good ones out there.

Even though from day one in the business, those tactics were thrown at me in the form of "training", I did my best to NOT be part of the "system". I also did my best to alleviate the nonsense and outright deception from the business when I was in a position to do so.

But rarely can one person "move a mountain".

I just stuck to my guns with my PERSONAL actions, and didn't resort to the deception in order to make a sale. I just couldn't do it. And I ultimately proved that a person did NOT have to resort to those tactics in order to be successful in the business.

And I was VERY successful in that business. Not because of the "tactics", but because of my personal INTEGRITY.

Buyers can pick up on that trait VERY quickly...

Keep this in mind folks,

NOBODY works until a salesman has done his job.

I always thought a product had to be designed, built and tested before it was sold. Yea there are presales in some industries but usually things are at least in the design stages first.

Design, built, tested: Someone sold the idea to a "Venture Capitalist" to provide the working capitol - even if it is selling yourself that the idea is worth the cost in both time and money. Think about it...

I think they call that marketing

BillyB;

I went back through my posts and didn't see where I said anything rude to Troop. If so, my apologies.

I think that after troop and my recent invigorating battery discussion that we can mutually and respectively disagree with each other, yet present our point-of-view, without becoming rude. We threw no barbs, or called each other out - we simply discussed the situation from different points of view. I hope this same thing has occured here.

Everything I have said has been summations of direct experience from things that have happened to me, or my close family members over the years. Nothing in those experiences had any bearing as to any posters here; I am sure they are honest, so I am not sure why so defensive.

But I'll say again, there is no denying the auto dealer industry has a horrible reputation with the public at large, some from historical perspective, and some from things that continue.

Well, I said all I am going to say, as I said more than I should, because I said I was going back to talking about boats, and that is what I am going to do.