I don't mind if anybody makes money selling to me. I will however make sure I'm on the lower end of the profit scale than the higher end.

I do get pretty annoyed when I have my mind made up to buy a particular vehicle and I can't get a salesman to sell it to me - which seems to happen often.

Yep, I agree. In fact, I insist!

When a dealer is able to rip someone elses head off on a deal (happens often enough), that opens up the door for guys like myself to mooch out a deal.

In the end, the dealer still made their money and they have another X on the board, so all is good!

Works for me!

Well, if you were a commissioned salesman and you had to choose between the two people,one on the lower and one on the higher profit end as mentioned above, which one would you try to pick?

Ah!, if only salesmen could "pick" their customers!!!

Where are those "salesman glasses" (that you referred to) when you need them??? hehe (Maybe call Ron Popeil. He's always looking for new items to sell on TV)

As you know, most dealerships have an "up" system of some sort, so the salesman rarely has the opportunity to "pick" a prospective client.

A salesman can certainly "lot-drop" or "T/O" (turn over) a customer once he discovers that the (so-called) buyer might be a waste of time, or a mini deal, but that activity (referred to as tree-topping or cherry-picking) is frowned upon if it was just due to finding his way to a pounder deal.

But then again, management being management, a deal is a deal, no matter how it got to the sales desk...

If buyers would just stamp a dollar sign on their forehead, it would make the selling game much more profitable! LOL

Which means its a game to them. So when a savvy customer comes in and counters you in the game - you cannot complain that they are wasting your time, because the UP system wastes customer's time; its all part of the game. Your game is UP; my game is purposeful indecision.




As long as salesmen would wear a commensurate sign on their forehead.

I don't have a problem with a dealer making a profit, but we've heard too many horror stories to trust many dealers. Maybe its perception, maybe its some of your fellow dealers need to clean up their act for stinking the waters for everyone else, I dunno, but stuff like mandatory binding arbitration, purposeful messing with credit ratings, and other stuff puts a bad taste in most folks mouths.

If you think not, answer these questions:

1. how many free dinners have you actually given out for someone that "bird-dogs" for you?

2. how many "free vacations" have you given out to folks buying your cars?

3. how many real contests do salesmen have? and how many times will this sale put them over the top? (my personal favorite).

4. how many times have you run a credit check without permission; after obtaining their driver's license for other presumed reasons?

5. how many times have you used my favorite line "put some money down so the manager knows you are serious"?

6. and if they did, how many times did you actually take their deal for consideration or just go to the bathroom?

7. and my second-best personal favorite. two people just came in here looking for the very same car you are wanting to trade in.

shall I go on?

These are all deceptive at the least, and dishonest at best. And when I become the recipient for any of these by merely walking onto the lot - the dealer starts the BS, right off the bat.

So, I counter-attack, as a good game requires. So be a good little salesman and get me a Coke.... and one for the miss'es if you please. My favorite "I am in a contest for a vacation and your sale will put me over the top". I usually counter, "well don't pack your bags yet - I don't think you are going to make a sale today". I am just returning BS for BS.

Its the salesman's job to be in control, to prey on my good nature - which in the first place, ratchets my disdain factor up; so then its now my job to keep him off balance.

Maybe this kind of stuff doesn't happen in your area, but this practice is still alive and well in the midwest. And you may be honest, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. But car dealers have 50 years history of deceptive and sometimes downright illegal shenanigans to overcome.

Man, Al, maybe you should buy cars in California.


1)Bird dog fees are totally illegal here

2) Running credit check without authorized signature, or explicit phone permission, $2500 fine. Besides, you need more info to run it than you can get off of a Ca drivers license

3)I haven't seen an "up" system in a dealership since 1989.

4) I haven't taken any money from a customer (earnest money) before the deal was completed since 1985. BTW, this practice was started by the real estate industry which still does it.

5)In California, you cannot give away ANYTHING free with the sale of a car. You can give away free stuff for test drives, but that just brings in the worst customers you can imagine so very few dealers do it.

They still throw your keys on the roof where you live too?

Seriously, the stuff you're talking about happened in the 60's, at a few of the dishonest dealers that were well publicized.

It still happens here, at least in 2001 - when I bought my last new car. Except for the keys on the roof. Went to one dealer, got Up'ped in about 15 minutes. Another dealer wanted my driver's license to take a test drive - for insurance purposes.

The finance guy at a dealer in '97 insisted that I finance the car through him. I told him that I already arranged my own financing, so that would not be necessary. After about 10 minutes of him badgering me; he made the comment "why won't you let me make a living here". That was it. I told him he was wasting my time, and it was not my job for him to make a living - I could care less. Either finish the deal or I walk.

A few years before that, mid 90's, we bought a used car from a dealer for my wife. Saw that it had some overspray. Asked if it had been in a wreck - and their stock answer; no, no, it was in the garage next to a car they were working on - we'll get that taken off.

Bought the car - then happened to look in the trunk and found where the fender had been replaced. Found a lawyer, got advice, went back to the dealership, started yelling at the manager (I am fairly meek, so out of character for me), forced the dealer to take the car back.

My dad bought a new car in '1998, 2 years before he died. My dad was of the age where a person's word was their word. He told the dealer, in no uncertain terms that the sale was contingent on getting life insurance. My dad was old and feeble, and the car dealer should have told him that there was no way he could get that insurance, but he had $$ signs in his eyes (I wish I would have been with him). Anyway, he died, the insurance company did not honor the claim. Since the insurance was out of state - it would have cost a lot of money for my mom to do anything. But to make it worse, the insurance company pro-rated their refund until the day he died.

Sure, he should not have gotten insurance, and my mom recalls that the dealer just did a lot of "sign this" stuff, without them reading any of it. Yea, they should have, but they were old, and the dealer certainly had his own profit in mind rather than knowingly doing the right thing.

The dealer simply should have told them that there was no way they could get insurance from them or any other dealership, so it was a risk they would have to take.

As it turned out, my mom got a lawyer, and was going to sue. But the dealer then became quite belligerent and they would have had a fight on their hands. My mom was still in pain due to my dad's death, and didn't want to go through a long battle, so she ended up selling the car for about what it was worth, and went on with her life.

This was not in the '60s. It was in the late '90s. So this stuff is not as ancient as you would like to think - at least in the midwest.

But on the other hand, we have had a very nice relationship with the dealer for the last car we bought. So nice in fact, that if we decide to keep that brand of car, and become repeat customers, we'll deal directly with the owners of the business, and not the salesmen. But I still keep a jar of anti-snake venom nearby...

I would highly recommend you have your next car-shopping experience at a nationally-run corporate store, like a Penske, Lithia, Asbury, or AutoNation dealership. Something that is publicly traded and has corporate guidelines.


Sounds like you have been working with Guido and Vinnie right out of the 60's. They still run hookers out of a back room to seal the deal?

Like I said, go fleet.

The examples I showed above were all from different dealers in the area.

There are no nationally-run stores in small-town america.

I would just buy the car on the Internet and be done with it.

We have not yet decided what we will do for the next car. At this point, we are thinking of an Nissan Altima, but I don't very much like the car dealer in our town.

I am waiting for retirement next year, as I don't want to buy a car and drive it 2 miles to work and back, as that I believe, can be rough on them.

A GOOD salesman can sell snowmobiles in Phoenix. If you're 'profiling' potential buyers then you won't be long in the sales world...

I guess I am glad that I haven't bought a car from a car dealer since 1992. That was my dad really doing the deal. And that was also a salesman that had sold my dad a car before, so we were not playing any "get to know you" games.
The last car salesman I talked to about a car was polite, helpful, and let me test drive a car, even though I wasn't ready to buy.

you guys are funny, holy crap it's not life or death, again, if you don't like how you are treated go somewhere else, grow up, and quit bitchin'