Hey GFC, I'll take the bait...

The FACT is PERSONAL experience from my nine years in the car business. Sure, it's not a lifetime of experience, but I started out as a lot [censored] and worked my way up through sales "management"; aftermarket sales (we called ourselves "Customer Relations Managers" Ha!); F&I; and finished up my glorious auto career as a dealer-partner until we sold the franchise.

When I was a green-pea, I couldn't believe all of the CASH buyers that came onto the lot, and the first thing that they would tell me is that they were a cash buyer and they wanted to make an offer based off of the invoice. No BS, no back and forth, no nonsense. They pretty much controlled the sale. Management wanted a deal, so we would make it a quick one. Give them two bills over invoice and close the deal. F&I wouldn't waste the time it took offering to sell them the aftermarket crap, (cash buyers are usually smarter)so they would print the paperwork and get the signatures. An hour later they were burning gas. I earned a "mini" for my time. We got an X on the board and I was back on the line looking for a "real deal".

On the other hand, a guy coming in and licking the paint on one of the same models as the cash buyer, but wanting/having to finance it was where the money was. After a three to four hour grind, and including the mop and glow and alarm system, not to mention the (over-priced)extended service contract, (which were all packed into the quoted payment) the financed buyer staggers out of the dealership buried in his new purchase for the next 5 to 7 years.

And I walked away with a home-run! Hawaii here I come!

Sure, it doesn't work this way all of the time, but certainly MOST of the time.

Dealerships hate to turn away a deal. Especially a deal with a check made out for the full amount sitting right in front of them. If there is daylight in the deal, they'll take it. Detroit can always build another car...

I USED to finance my vehicles and boats. Since my time in the auto business, I learned of the many benefits of paying cash (lower price just being one of them). I save up and pay cash for my vehicles now.

I paid cash for my last three boats. The same techniques that work for car buyers, work for boat buyers (and RV buyers too). My Sea Ray, Scout and Winnebago were all invoice plus deals. "But hey...boat and RV dealers don't show their invoices!" Ummm, yes, they do.

Can payment buyers accomplish the same thing?

Sure. Anything's possible...

Oh, and did I mention "get-me-dones"???

I'll save that for another day...

I would say in these days of Internet access and invoice pricing, there is not much difference i gross profit between cash-buyers and payment buyers. Everything (even on leases) is full-disclosure now, so unless someone just doesn't care, it's all there in plain English.

On the other hand: if you are in a hurry, 'sticker is quicker'.

You may be able to see the invoice on boats ( but not always), but you don't know the incentives. We always bought as many boats from dealer meetings, and brochure photo shoots as we could get, some for as much as 8k under invoice. All considered new boats, and if I showed you the invoice, I could still make thousands.

My truck was purchased under the friends and family plan and my wife bought her used car from a friend who is also a dealer at auction. The truck was less than 50% financed but after making the 3rd payment, we decided to pay it off and not have to bother with writing a check every month. The car and boat was purchased with cash as that is how my wife grew up. It is the best feeling knowing that your toys are paid for and your house is not at stake.

Now that I am wanting a bigger boat and trying to juggle that with paying cash will take some sacrifices.

I like this quote:
The haves live below their means, the have nots live above. Simple as that.

If you spend a few minutes on the Internet, you will find the incentives for cars and trucks as well as invoice. It's all out there, if you take the time to look.


Just don't expect the dealer to give it all to you. Maybe most of it, but not all.

That's certainly true these days, especially with dealers going belly-up on a weekly basis, thus offering up their remaining inventory at cost or below.

The difference being that it is much easier for a financed buyer to have the games played on them with the amounts and terms, despite the "full disclosure"...

Just as an example: A $95 (at cost) alarm system sold to a payment buyer for "only" $18 additional per month. The payment buyer would see that as a "bargain". Multiply that $18 times the number of payments for the loan and you can quickly see the amount of gross profit added to the deal just with the alarm add-on. (Sadly) Most payment buyers don't think that way. They just concentrate on the payment (which is what the salesman wants them to do).

Same with the mop and glow and extended service plans.

Easy money...

VERY true!

When I purchased our motorhome, the dealer (not a Ford franchise)never mentioned the $1,500 Ford factory rebate on Econoline chassis'.

I knew about it though (thanks to the internet), and I immediately applied for it directly with Ford. About a month later, I had my rebate check.

I wonder if the RV dealer was planning on swallowing that rebate as part of his "profit"???

Don't ask...Don't tell...

Except that since Reg Z, all of that is now disclosed with cash-cost on the contract or lease paperwork; this is a Federal regulation, not just California.

Don't blame the dealers for making more money if you don't read the big print and the typed-in numbers on what you sign.

(reading the fine print on the back of standard contracts is a waste of EVERYONES time)

Sure, while in the business, we considered that kind of money "dealer" money, and did not figure it in as commissionable gross.

If the "program" boat showed wear and tear, and if the customer demanded "compensation", then we would get permission from the dealer to use some of those funds to off-set the price to make the deal.

But most of that money went to the dealers' "Hawaii" fund...



As a buyer, as long as I was happy with my deal, I purchased it. If the dealer makes money off of me (wherever the profit came from), good for him...

AMEN!!!



It's all about PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!

There is no sense in paying cash when they are giving money away with a time value of zero. Deal as if it were cash because every month it will be, but no reason to tie up all that money when it can be elsewhere giving you its time value.

And reading ALL of the contract is just that. You should see me when purchasing real estate. I read every single document top to bottom and front to back. Maybe that's why I don't have some funky defunct loan?

^^^^^^

You and me both!