Of the most popular hybrid.

Not saying it is correct or complete. Just an interesting thought with all the environmental talk and cost of gas.

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188

Good story.

unintended consequences

Waterdog needs to print that story and paste it all over the bus stop he passes.

He should print them and hand them out directly, on recycled paper of course.

Actually on Hemp paper, so they can smoke it, cause they won't read it!

And I have a question: is that really accurate that the new EPA highway mileage is based on travelling at 80mph? Ummm, that speed is not legal in any state that I am aware of, so how can they use that test efficiency? It's like advocating breaking the law, just because you can. Doesn't seem right to me.
(I realize the old 55mph test was equally ridiculous too, though.)

Interesting analysis. Who would have thought?

That't just it, GFC, people don't think. Just follow the idiots like lemmings.

I've been saying this since the hybrids were started. Buy them for the technology - not the environment. They are environmentally negative.

The article is not exactly fair either. Comparing the entire cost of a Prius over 100,000 miles to a Hummer over 300,000 miles is stretching a bit. Recompute that to count the prius with 2 battery changes, and it will quickly fall over to the Prius' favor - by a large margin.

People also have the mistaken opinion (even my wife, who drives a hybrid Camry) that the electric motor creates the increased gas mileage. It doesn't. Generating power by running a gas engine, then turning a generator, then storing the generated electricity in a recharchable battery, then running an electric motor off the battery couldn't possibly be more efficient than simply running the gas engine in the first place. Every step in that process loses energy.

So why is the electric motor there? To supplement the tiny gas engine in the car with power. A little Secret - if you ripped out the electric generator, electric motor and the storage battery out of a Prius, it would still get 45 mpg - it would just be dog-slow. The only thing you would lose is the regenerative braking, and that would be offset by not carrying around all the extra crap.

According to the EPA, I should get 28mpg on the highway, but I routinely get 32 without much effort, buat that seems to be max, actually achieved 32.2 a couple of times, but that's close enough to 32. It is a rating system with standardized parameters, not such accurate to real world though. I don't think they actually test each car either, isn't it just computed from vehicle weight and wind resistance along with available hp?

How much does an extra battery cost to have installed?
I forwarded the link to another guy here at work and we chatted briefly on it. Can a Prius survive 300,000 miles? and how much extra parts have to go into one over that mileage in comparison to the Hummer? Hummers are built pretty heavy, and the Prius isn't as much, but carries a lot of weight. Will that have an effect, especially on north east roads? I tend to think so.
This article would have been better related to a bigger populace and put the Prius against something like a mid/full size sedan and a mid size SUV.

In a stunning statement for me, I would bet a nickel that a Prius would last 300k before a Hummer would. In the Hummer, you'll almost certainly put in a transmission. Does replacing the batteries in a Prius cost more than a $3000 transmission change in a Hummer.
Mutt, I know that no matter what "test cycle" they use, the EPA's estimated mileage is just that, an estimate. I just think it odd that they use an illegal speed to make their estimate. And then the feds want to penalize car companies for low mileage, based on a speed that is breaking every states' law? Crazy, I tell ya!

What? Did you expect two government agencies to work out of the same rule book?

Given the scale and complexity, a Golf Cart battery change is about $700. A Prius, I am thinking $5000-6000. MCF 20%.

I think the battery change is like 7K at the moment but coming down.

I've got a 98 F150 and a 96 chevy 1500 both over 250K miles with original motors and trans.

The disparity would be even greater, and the Prius will look even worse!

You got lucky, good for you!

Yikes! Advantage Hummer, for sure! Add that $7000 in to keep the Prius going another 100k and I'll bet that cost per mile stays right about where it was.

No way. They depreciated the entire original cost of the Prius over 100,000 miles to get the cost as high as they did.

The batteries are warranted for 100K, but my understanding is they go about 150K.

So if you put one new battery pack - at $7K (I think it's more like $5K) and spread the depreciation over 300K - then you'll drop the Prius cost by about 60%.

BTW - A Hummer is simply a Chevy Suburban with a different body. So there's nothing highly technical or strongly built about it - unless you are talking about the military Hummer - which would cost a mint to keep going for 300,000 miles.

I'm not a Prius lover - but I want people to be accurate in their comparisons.

A-Men Indy!

The H3 is basically a Colorado Truck.

The depreciation would fall as the cost of the Prius would be expanded over 3X as many miles.

The H2 has a re-inforced suburban frame, and i have heard they use the upgraded transmission 4L65 or 4L80, but I have not substantiated that. Even a standard suburban would have a better chance at surviving most roads these days, i would think. A vehicle designed to handle heavy loads is typically stronger built than a standard people mover.

Anyway, the study is a little skewed, but i think it is a good indicator that perceptions are sometimes skewed as well.

My mother just bought a Prius, i have yet to see it. She is not good at math. Funny thing though, my father drives an xB which is also mentioned in the article, he loves the thing.

Wait? How's the Prius going to fall apart?

Last I checked, Hummers (and Suburban, etc) have plenty of problems keeping suspension components working properly. Are you saying the Pruiss is going to have MORE problems? Or are you implying the Unibody frame isn't going to last 300,000 miles? Somewhat confused.

Regardless, the new Hummers 2's use the 6.2L 400hp engine and 6L80 (6-speed) tranny. And, btw, don't forget the 4x4 system as "wear parts" to the Hummer. That's not something that is an issue on the Prius. And I don't the survey account for the energy used in distribution of the fuel. Don't forget the billions of gallons of fuel (diesel?) used in semi's to transport the fuel to the station. There are LOTS of carbon indirect offsets that are often ignored this these idiocracy (is that a word?) comparisons. The article didn't mention lithium technology, which are the hear future battery of choice.

Which, BTW, Toyota lab testing has the batteries exceeding 180,000 miles.

Furthermore (sorry i'm hopping around here, have to get off to New Student Orientation in a second), as previously mentioned, lithium packs can store about twice as much energy and are not nearly as bad for the environment (if they don't use Cobalt). And before anyone harps on NIMH batteries, they better not be using lead batteries in their vehicles. Lead batteries are MUCHHHH more dangerous to the environment than any NIMH battery is. There are HUNDREDS of millions of lead batteries floating around. Only a couple million NIMH's. Additionally, there are several million MORE golf cars floating around using LEAD batteries than there hybrid vehicles. Point in case, I think that's a poor argument to present. It's VERY easily defeated.

Okie, I got to go talk to a bunch of know-nothing freshman (as I laugh at myself because I was in those shoes a year ago)

Top Gear tests the Prius

Top Gear - Billy Bob and the Prius

Sorry, edited for space.


From my experience, cars don't fair well long term as well as trucks when the roads get a little rough. Struts, lighter duty suspension parts along with steering components of a car seem to wear much faster. But you do have the 4x4 components of the truck to deal with as well. So, really, I do not know which would last longer, and quite frankly, i don't plan to find out.

that's just what I have now, over the past 10 years I've sold dozens of American made trucks with over 200k and trade them back in and sell them again. They just keep on goin'

What do you suppose a 6 year old prius with 100k on it is worth when you know it also is ready for a $5000 battery?

loan value from dealer/bank "black book" : all used values 08=26125, 07=23875, 06=21750, 05=19500, 04=17275, 03=10825, 02=9300. Big drop at 6 yrs.