What's the current state of recycling with NiMH batteries? I saw a show (Modern Marvels?) recently about lead, and it said that virtually all the lead in new batteries is from recycled sources these days .

A more interesting comparison IMO would have been the Prius to an economy car that doesn't use hybrid techology. I'm guessing the overall impact on the environment would have been quite a bit less with the non-hybrid.

I don't think you can get an accurate comparison yet. There are too many variables that are unknowns at this point.

Very few people (IMHO) buy a prius because it is going to save them money so in my mind you can kill the money argument. Most buy it because they believe or want people to believe they are helping mother earth.

I think what should be looked at is that the "enviro-friendly" car is not so enviro-friendly. Whether you take the hit at the beginning or durin the life, all vehicles have an impact. I don't know which is truly worse, but the mining deal in Canada is pretty bad.

The article essentially points out the hypocrisy of those that preach about carbon footprint and vehicle emissions. But, this hyprocisy is nothing new with enviromentalists. It is also nothing new with our government. MTBE, CFLs, etc... come to mind.

THe bottom line is there is no free lunch. Either you pay before you eat it, you pay while you eat it or you pay after you eat it. In some cases it could be all three.

I love how all of the technical advancements made in these hybrid cars are being ignored. It's very well possible an improved electrical drive train is the midterm future of automobiles. Think Chevy Volt style. It's a work in progress. But half of you have your noses so far in the air that you wouldn't dare consider the long term benefits of the vehicles. And I also see noone relied to Indyboater's situation. What? A hybrid making financial sense? Loosing the argument? Going to run away from it now?

Progress has to start somewhere. Where do you want it to start if this is such a dumb idea?

BTW: Indy: average gas milage of a I4 Camry in city conditions is closer to 22mpg, V6 in the 20 area.

Which is worse, turning a nose up or turning a blind eye?

I'm all for technological advancements, but I am also for looking at the impact they have. For years we have done things to advance science or make things better and look the other way to get it done. MTBE comes to mind. Many were against the additive when it went in, but because it has some benefits that could be touted, it went through. Then what? It was later determined the bad side effects did exist and it was eliminated. Same thing here, while there are some advancements, are they worth what people are being led to believe? And just because we have an advancement, doesn't mean we have to use it, we can use the technology and build on it without making things worse. But I guess many wouldn't understand that unless it is wrapped up in some rah rah rhetoric.

Indy, friends of ours recently bought a Camry Hybrid as well. They needed a new car, and for the upgraded cost in a car that size, it definitely made financial sense, like you said. Their only complaint so far is the slight loss in trunk space.

Hybrids have their place. What is an issue is that too many people are sold on hype rather than need. It is just as bad to buy a hybrid because it is a status symbol as it was to buy a big SUV for the same reason. In an ideal world, we would have a different vehicle for every need. It would be a lot better if they can develop a cheap, lightweight and long lasting power storage device. Until then, we all have to get vehicles based on our individual needs.

And I believe that's exactly where we're headed. But there will always be a percentage of people who say the people who need (or at least want and can afford) a truck or other "inefficient" conveyance are selfish, shortsighted, and stupid. Until we're all driving around at 5mph with our knees in our chests, they won't be happy (and even then they'll find something to [censored] about).

The most non-environmentally friendly part of a hybrid is the battery pack. In the grand scheme of things, even they are not that un-friendly. As far as batteries go, the alkaline and NICD batteries we use in small devices are more damaging than NIMH are. And there are recycle programs. The electrical motors, etc, are not that unfriendly.

Refining the drive-trains is crucial to the future of electrical driven cars, whether fuel-cell, battery, or gas/diesel generators. This includes regenerative breaking advances, power steering advances, AC advances, etc and how to make the car use electricity as efficiently as possible.

As previously eluded, cleaner lithium batteries have potential. Look at the Chevy Volt for example. Using grid energy, high storage lithium batteries, and a small efficient gas engine as a generator, the car is able to achieve 100mpg. Applying that technology to an Equinox only reduces it a little bit. Replace the gas engine with a fuel cell. Etc. LOTS of possibilities with this technology.

There are crazies in all 3 parties, the Dems, the Repubs, and the party of everyone else. That's nothing new!

The article is meant to bash the Prius - but it uses some fallacies to do it.

How much Nickel from that Canadian plant is in the Hummer? I'd guess a fair amount. Maybe even more than the Prius, given that Hummers are slathered in stainless steel and high strenght steel.

My favorite Prius/Hybrid send up...