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#418535 - 07/01/08 11:39 AM Auto Gurus - need an opinion
Wet Doggg Admiral Registered: 01/12/03 Posts: 5383 Loc: Rockford, Michigan del.icio.us digg it	We have a 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee wit 82,000 miles on it. Always done the scheduled maintenance and has been a good vehicle for us. So about six weeks ago after towing the boat my Malfunction Indicator Light came on. I did a little reading and I found out that sometimes very low gas mileage can cause the light to come on. So I let it go, it did not go off so I finally took it to the dealer. They said that my Powertrain Control Module has an error in it and needs to be replaced to a tune of about $600. Now, the truck runs perfectly. So I took it to a local guy that I was recommended to that deals in this type of stuff. He reset the code and sent me on my way, no charge. Well, later that afternoon the light came back on. My local guy is honest and has not charged me for anything. He comes with a lot of recommendations. He can't replace the computer as a dealer MUST program the PCM...so he can't help me. But I asked him what would happen if I kept driving and not replacing the PCM. He said to go ahead...it could never get any worse. Especially because I have been driving around for six weeks already and no issues have come up at all. So...if I am having no issues...would you still replace the PCM? _________________________ 2000 Four Winns 230 - the new Wet Doggg
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#418536 - 07/01/08 11:41 AM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: Wet Doggg]
D-Rod Admiral Registered: 06/25/05 Posts: 7154	Do you have any emission requirements to meet in MI?
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#418538 - 07/01/08 11:44 AM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: D-Rod]
Wet Doggg Admiral Registered: 01/12/03 Posts: 5383 Loc: Rockford, Michigan	Not that I am aware of. _________________________ 2000 Four Winns 230 - the new Wet Doggg
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#418540 - 07/01/08 11:50 AM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: Wet Doggg]
D-Rod Admiral Registered: 06/25/05 Posts: 7154	Did the dealer try to flash the PCM? That an off-the-wall idea and I have no data or experience to back that up. CNY might say it's a dumb idea. But, it may not be bad if the dealer tried to reinstall the PCM software.
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#418552 - 07/01/08 12:20 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: Wet Doggg]
BillyB Admiral Registered: 10/29/04 Posts: 7364 Loc: Peoria, Illinois	WD, if the fuel mileage doesn't suffer horribly, the vehicle continues to run properly, doesn't blow tons of smoke out the tailpipe, and there are no emission concerns, you know I say to keep driving it. Now at $4/gallon, if the fuel economy is cut in half, you can do the math to figure out how many miles you would have to drive to waste $600. _________________________ I'm just happy to be here! 1997 Chaparral 2135
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#418555 - 07/01/08 12:25 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: D-Rod]
Heyboer Vice Admiral Registered: 05/30/07 Posts: 384 Loc: Chicago	How about getting a third opinion on it? My thought is after six weeks forget it. Put tape over the light and forget it.
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#418556 - 07/01/08 12:27 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: BillyB]
Bonesian Vice Admiral Registered: 04/05/08 Posts: 271 Loc: N.E. Illinois	WD, What specific error code did the local guy get? Also, here in Illinois, any "check engine" light is an automatic fail.
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#418561 - 07/01/08 12:53 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: Bonesian]
BillyB Admiral Registered: 10/29/04 Posts: 7364 Loc: Peoria, Illinois	That's Chicago, Bonesian. Not Illinois. We don't have emissions testing in Illinois. I too am curious what specific code they are getting. It sure would stink to replace that PCM, just to get a code for a dirty MAF sensor! _________________________ I'm just happy to be here! 1997 Chaparral 2135
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#418565 - 07/01/08 01:02 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: BillyB]
Jeffski Wingman Admiral Registered: 07/27/03 Posts: 2342 Loc: Michigan	The "check engine" light is on in three of the four vehicles I own. All are problems that I've been told don't need to be fixed and therefore they won't get fixed. _________________________ 2001 Four Winns 210 Horizon 5.0L GXI Searching for that "One Particular Harbor."
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#418567 - 07/01/08 01:06 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: BillyB]
Wet Doggg Admiral Registered: 01/12/03 Posts: 5383 Loc: Rockford, Michigan	The error code that is being detected is 601 which is just "internal Computer Error". The local guy said his machine showed "very rare" when it showed the code error. That is why he initially reset it and sent me on my way. _________________________ 2000 Four Winns 230 - the new Wet Doggg
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#418599 - 07/01/08 01:50 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: Wet Doggg]
Brian S Admiral Registered: 03/27/05 Posts: 550 Loc: Canton, Michigan	You can bet that I'm not gona tell ya to get a test light out. No State reuirements to pass in Michigan. _________________________ 2004 Chaparral 204 SSI 2001 F150 S/Crew Lariat
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#418601 - 07/01/08 02:05 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: Brian S]
kenhdog Admiral Registered: 06/11/05 Posts: 2255 Loc: Oxnard, CA	If I recall, the Check Engine light will come on if there are (various) issues, and will go out if the issue does not repeat or someting like that over a course of time or miles or whatever. Maybe some codes set and stay, I can't recall. As a computer, my first thought is to reset it somehow. You'll probably have to read up, but it may be as simple as disconnecting the battery for a few hours, or more a complex procedure if the computer is powered by a backup source... Might Google around for a similar issue experience, or a way to reset the computer to see if it goes and stays away. Just a thought... _________________________ 2002 Rinker 212 Captiva Merc 5.7 EFI Alpha Trail-Rite Trailer 1999 GMC 'Burb
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#418602 - 07/01/08 02:05 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: Brian S]
Al Nautical Alchemy Admiral Registered: 01/14/03 Posts: 11405 Loc: Battle Creek/Grand Haven, MI	We had the equivalent light go on our car several times in the 7 years we owned it. First time a sensor needing replacing. Next time, it was a false malfunction. Last time - about a month ago - a different sensor needed replacement. The dealer told us that our fuel mileage was suffering. Funny thing - even before the light went on, the wife and I were wondering if someone was siphoning gas from our car as we noticed a drop in fuel mileage. After the replacement, our fuel mileage seems better. _________________________ "Yesterday's Dreams" 1995 Carver 325 Aft Cabin Posts are amateur opinion only. You assume all responsibility for any action you take as a result of reading my posts.
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#418612 - 07/01/08 02:31 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: Wet Doggg]
Brian S Admiral Registered: 03/27/05 Posts: 550 Loc: Canton, Michigan	P0601 code info _________________________ 2004 Chaparral 204 SSI 2001 F150 S/Crew Lariat
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#418614 - 07/01/08 02:33 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: Al]
NealB Ensign Registered: 05/30/08 Posts: 20 Loc: Lake Eufaula, Oklahoma	Check in your owners manual warranty section and see what the specific warranty is on the PCM. On GM products it is 8 years or 80,000 miles. I know that yours is slightly over that, but I also know they can do a "goodwill adjustment" to cover it. After all, there is nothing you could have done to cause that failure and they should have no problem covering it.
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#418671 - 07/01/08 04:25 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: NealB]
Indyboater Admiral Registered: 01/19/03 Posts: 2176 Loc: Indianapolis	I would also go out and jiggle the wiring on the PCM in case it's getting a poor connection somewhere.
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#418719 - 07/01/08 06:21 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: Indyboater]
Wet Doggg Admiral Registered: 01/12/03 Posts: 5383 Loc: Rockford, Michigan	Originally Posted By: Indyboater I would also go out and jiggle the wiring on the PCM in case it's getting a poor connection somewhere. That is not the case. The local guy had the current PCM out of the vehicle before he realized he could install the new one but could not program it. _________________________ 2000 Four Winns 230 - the new Wet Doggg
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#418730 - 07/01/08 07:22 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: Wet Doggg]
D-Rod Admiral Registered: 06/25/05 Posts: 7154	Flash?
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#418734 - 07/01/08 07:40 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: D-Rod]
Bonesian Vice Admiral Registered: 04/05/08 Posts: 271 Loc: N.E. Illinois	What the F happened to my complete post? Who edited my first response AND WHY? There were no curse words and I explained to Billy that he was wrong!! NE Illinois DOES emission tests! What's yer problem????? What's up with you tight-arses? At least have the coconuts to "show" that you've edited someone elses post/reply. Don't just edit it w/o a clearly stated reason. And also state who did the editing please.... I'm a frickin American! Edited by Bonesian (07/01/08 07:41 PM)
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#418736 - 07/01/08 07:49 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: Bonesian]
D-Rod Admiral Registered: 06/25/05 Posts: 7154
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#418739 - 07/01/08 07:52 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: Bonesian]
Bonesian Vice Admiral Registered: 04/05/08 Posts: 271 Loc: N.E. Illinois	BTW...When you responded "Flash"...that frickin "Flash Gordon" song is now stuck in my cranium. Thanks! Edited by Bonesian (07/01/08 07:53 PM)
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#418740 - 07/01/08 07:59 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: Bonesian]
Scott L Admiral Registered: 01/09/03 Posts: 3625 Loc: NJ	Originally Posted By: Bonesian What the F happened to my complete post? Who edited my first response AND WHY? There were no curse words and I explained to Billy that he was wrong!! NE Illinois DOES emission tests! What's yer problem????? What's up with you tight-arses? At least have the coconuts to "show" that you've edited someone elses post/reply. Don't just edit it w/o a clearly stated reason. And also state who did the editing please.... I'm a frickin American! I'll give 10 to 1 odds that it was the over all tone of your post that got it zapped. Very often your posts leave the reader with a bad feeling. No different than the way the post I quoted does. Dancing around using curse words and low class english. How ever wrong Billyb might be, has brougt a lot to the board and helps a lot of members with detailed information, and thus even if wrong, your " tone " may have been over the line. Think about it. _________________________ 2003 Chaparral 200 SSi - Volvo 5.7 Gi-Sx - " Ready or Knot " " Everybody seems normal - until you get to know them "
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#418741 - 07/01/08 07:59 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: D-Rod]
cny boater Admiral Registered: 03/16/03 Posts: 2743 Loc: Central New York	The Grim Reaper cometh for your computer, WD. The dreaded P0601 means one thing only. And as your local guy found out, there are very few non-dealers that can do that job because of the programming issue. Don't even think about a used one, because if the used one has a mismatched security system, you will then need a new computer and a new BCM (and programming), if you plug it in and try to start it. As far as letting it go, the biggest pitfall that I see is the fact that the MIL is on for what you believe to be a P0601. If another problem arises that is more important, you'll never know it unless you periodically scan, which really isn't practical. We FINALLY got our IDS system up and running last night. Had to burn the midnight oil to do it. IDS is what the Ford dealers use for 1996-current Ford, Mazda and Jag. We are now the only independent repair shop in the area that has the capability of doing exactly what the Ford dealers can do, including programming modules for new installs and reflashing for updated software. I am useless setting this stuff up (I'm pretty good with a test light though!), so I swept the floors while my wife and a friend (Vetronix Rep) loaded the programs on my shop PC and a Samsung Q1 Ultra tablet for portability. I happened to have a 02 Sable in with an intermittent misfire. Since ever, I have never had the capability to view live misfires on ANY Ford product. Last night changed all that and it was SO COOL to finally be able to pick up an intermittent Ford misfire! This stuff is getting costly and complicated to keep up with. WD, keep us posted as to the Grand Finale. $600 is the going rate for your computer, labor and programming. _________________________ Bob 2002 Cobalt 226 350 MPI B1
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#418745 - 07/01/08 08:06 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: cny boater]
Bonesian Vice Admiral Registered: 04/05/08 Posts: 271 Loc: N.E. Illinois	Quote: I'll give 10 to 1 odds that it was the over all tone of your post that got it zapped. Very often your posts leave the reader with a bad feeling. No different than the way the post I quoted does. Dancing around using curse words and low class english. How ever wrong Billyb might be, has brougt a lot to the board and helps a lot of members with detailed information, and thus even if wrong, your " tone " may have been over the line. Think about it. Thought about it....1/10 of one second. 1000% wrong Scott...but I still love ya. (didn't mean to say that out loud) There WAS NO TONE...NOTHING. And I want "by all means" to hook-up with Bill in the future. We're only a couple locks apart. Capn M...did you happen to save this one? Edited by Bonesian (07/01/08 08:07 PM)
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#418749 - 07/01/08 08:11 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: Bonesian]
Bonesian Vice Admiral Registered: 04/05/08 Posts: 271 Loc: N.E. Illinois	I knew cny would reply! (Crap! Big fireworks launching around the house...shorts cleaning time!.....
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#418753 - 07/01/08 08:16 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: cny boater]
Wet Doggg Admiral Registered: 01/12/03 Posts: 5383 Loc: Rockford, Michigan	Originally Posted By: cny boater The Grim Reaper cometh for your computer, WD. The dreaded P0601 means one thing only. And as your local guy found out, there are very few non-dealers that can do that job because of the programming issue. Don't even think about a used one, because if the used one has a mismatched security system, you will then need a new computer and a new BCM (and programming), if you plug it in and try to start it. As far as letting it go, the biggest pitfall that I see is the fact that the MIL is on for what you believe to be a P0601. If another problem arises that is more important, you'll never know it unless you periodically scan, which really isn't practical. We FINALLY got our IDS system up and running last night. Had to burn the midnight oil to do it. IDS is what the Ford dealers use for 1996-current Ford, Mazda and Jag. We are now the only independent repair shop in the area that has the capability of doing exactly what the Ford dealers can do, including programming modules for new installs and reflashing for updated software. I am useless setting this stuff up (I'm pretty good with a test light though!), so I swept the floors while my wife and a friend (Vetronix Rep) loaded the programs on my shop PC and a Samsung Q1 Ultra tablet for portability. I happened to have a 02 Sable in with an intermittent misfire. Since ever, I have never had the capability to view live misfires on ANY Ford product. Last night changed all that and it was SO COOL to finally be able to pick up an intermittent Ford misfire! This stuff is getting costly and complicated to keep up with. WD, keep us posted as to the Grand Finale. $600 is the going rate for your computer, labor and programming. Cny...thanks for the info sir . Now the $1,000,000 question...if it were you...would you drive with it? _________________________ 2000 Four Winns 230 - the new Wet Doggg
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#418759 - 07/01/08 08:24 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: Bonesian]
Scott L Admiral Registered: 01/09/03 Posts: 3625 Loc: NJ	Originally Posted By: Bonesian Quote: I'll give 10 to 1 odds that it was the over all tone of your post that got it zapped. Very often your posts leave the reader with a bad feeling. No different than the way the post I quoted does. Dancing around using curse words and low class english. How ever wrong Billyb might be, has brougt a lot to the board and helps a lot of members with detailed information, and thus even if wrong, your " tone " may have been over the line. Think about it. Thought about it....1/10 of one second. 1000% wrong Scott...but I still love ya. (didn't mean to say that out loud) There WAS NO TONE...NOTHING...... If you say so - I stand corrected - I apologize. _________________________ 2003 Chaparral 200 SSi - Volvo 5.7 Gi-Sx - " Ready or Knot " " Everybody seems normal - until you get to know them "
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#418762 - 07/01/08 08:28 PM Re: Auto Gurus - need an opinion [Re: Wet Doggg]
cny boater Admiral Registered: 03/16/03 Posts: 2743 Loc: Central New York	I think I'd have it fixed for the reason stated. But you may want to try the Goodwill angle first, as mentioned earlier. Who knows, maybe they will meet you half way or better since it's only 2k or so over the 8/80. You may wish to remind the service dept that you will be in the market for a brand-spankin' new Jeep soon. In New York (other than the Metropolitan area), the Jeep would fail the scan-based emissions test. I would double check your regs, because it sounds like you have some conflicting input. I had to fail an S10 once because the MIL was on. The alcohol detection sensor (flex fuel vehicle) was defective. We don't even have E85 in NY, and the customer didn't even know that he had a flex fuel vehicle. The part alone was $600 or $700! THAT was a bad situation. _________________________ Bob 2002 Cobalt 226 350 MPI B1
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