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#417819 - 06/28/08 12:23 PM How Obama would tax the wealthy *
MarkHB Offline
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Registered: 09/12/03
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NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Most voters are aware that Barack Obama wants to raise taxes on high-income taxpayers if he's elected president in November.

But what does the Democratic candidate mean by high-income? Who'd be affected and how? While the Obama campaign must still settle on more details about their plans, outlines are starting to emerge.

To start, Obama frequently cites $250,000 as the line between those who would be subject to higher taxes and those who wouldn't.

Indeed, under Obama's tax plan, married couples with at least $250,000 in gross income are likely to see their taxes go up if Obama is elected president.

But what about single filers? The line for them would likely be about $200,000, according to an Obama adviser.

Those groups could end up paying anywhere from several thousand dollars to tens of thousands of dollars more to Uncle Sam than they do now, according to estimates from the Tax Policy Center.

From income to Social Security to estates, we take a look at four areas where the high-income set and the very well off may be subject to a bigger tax bill in an Obama administration.

Income taxes
Obama would restore the top two income tax rates to their pre-2001 levels of 36% and 39.6%. Currently they're 33% and 35%.

Obama's proposal would also reinstate some limitations on how much of a given deduction or personal exemption high-income taxpayers may take.

However, not everyone in the top two brackets would necessarily be affected by the rate increase. Much depends on whether they've been subject to the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) in the past.

You're supposed to calculate your tax liability under both the regular income tax code and the AMT. If your bill under the AMT is bigger, you must pay that.

The Obama rate increase would certainly narrow the spread between the two - since the amount owed under the regular code would go up. The question is would the amount you owe because of the increase exceed your AMT bill.

"Until the regular tax starts exceeding the [AMT bill], you won't have an increase," said John Battaglia, a director in the private client advisors practice of Deloitte. "But if people are deep into AMT, it wouldn't matter."

For example, if the rate increase would mean you owe $2,500 more under the regular code, but your AMT bill is normally $5,000 more than your regular bill, you would still pay the AMT.

Payroll taxes
In addition to wages up to $102,000 - the current cap on salary subject to the payroll tax, which funds Social Security - Obama would also tax amounts over $250,000.

In other words, income between $102,000 and $250,000 would be protected.

Obama's stated goals are to better fund the Social Security program - which faces a long-term shortfall - and to make the system more progressive. Currently, the vast majority of Americans pay the Social Security tax on 100% of their income because they don't make more than the $102,000 wage cap. By contrast, very highly paid taxpayers only pay Social Security tax on a portion of their income. People who make $204,000, for example, only pay the tax on 50% of their income.

The rate at which salary is taxed for Social Security is 12.4% (half of which is normally paid by employees and half by their employers).

Obama hasn't said whether the money from wages and salaries over $250,000 would be taxed at the same rate. If it were, the person making $300,000 in gross income - $50,000 above the $250,000 watermark - would pay an additional $3,100 into the system annually (6.2% x $50,000).

We also don't know whether the benefits promised to the highest income workers would go up as a result of their paying more into the system.

"Those are details that Senator Obama would want to work out on a bipartisan basis with Congress," an Obama adviser said.

That lack of specificity concerns some tax experts. "If Obama is hinting that those making more than $250,000 would pay a higher payroll tax rate ... it would fundamentally change the way Social Security operates and run the risk of making the program look less like social insurance and more like welfare," Tax Vox blog editor Howard Gleickman wrote for the Tax Policy Center.

Investment income taxes
Long-term capital gains used to be taxed differently than dividends, which were subject to one's top income tax rate. Under the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, gains and dividends are treated equally. Currently the most one would pay is 15%.

Both rates are scheduled to rise by 2011 - long-term gains to 20% and dividends would once again be taxed a taxpayer's top income tax rate for dividends.

Obama would continue to treat gains and dividends equally and would keep the current rate in place for everyone except high-income households.

He hasn't specified how high he'd like to make the rate, but observers expect and Obama himself has virtually said that the new rate likely would fall between 20% and 25%.

Estate tax
Finally, Obama's proposals to tax wealth are not only defined by income levels.

When it comes to family wealth, for instance, Obama favors maintaining the estate tax, which is scheduled to be repealed in 2010 for one year. But he would limit its reach.

Obama would freeze the estate tax exemption amount at $3.5 million - up from its current $2 million level and the $1 million level it's set to revert to in 2011. He would also keep the current top rate of 45%, which is below the 55% it is set to revert to in 2011.

Link to article


Mark
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#417822 - 06/28/08 12:31 PM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: MarkHB]
Bonesian Offline
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Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 243
Loc: N.E. Illinois
I dont have a problem with the wealthy having to pay their fair share. "Trickle-down economics" never worked in the first place!

All these "quotes" by so-called experts....who apparently have a solution? for everything. rofl sick

BTW....I'm an expert at NOTHING other than stating my beliefs and opinions as an AMERICAN CITIZEN! thumb usa1 pirate


Edited by Bonesian (06/28/08 12:34 PM)

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#417866 - 06/28/08 05:01 PM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: Bonesian]
D-Rod Offline
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Registered: 06/25/05
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Your reaction, Mark?
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#417867 - 06/28/08 05:10 PM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: D-Rod]
230 Mike Offline
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Registered: 05/29/05
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I find it amazing that anyone would be in favor of raising taxes.
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#417869 - 06/28/08 05:28 PM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: 230 Mike]
D-Rod Offline
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Registered: 06/25/05
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No additional comments?
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#417874 - 06/28/08 06:36 PM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: D-Rod]
Hockey Family Offline
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Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2453
Loc: OC - SoCal
I should just spend more and more, and then go to my employer and say I'm raising my salary. smile

BTW, what will the O-Bomb man do with the extra cash? Pay down Hill Clinton's rising debt?


Edited by Admin (06/30/08 05:16 PM)
Edit Reason: Spelled out Clinton. That is enough of that.
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#417940 - 06/29/08 01:01 AM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: Hockey Family]
D-Rod Offline
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Registered: 06/25/05
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Raises taxes or cut 9% of the total federal budget.
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#417949 - 06/29/08 01:44 AM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: D-Rod]
Nu2BoatN Offline
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Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 2578
Loc: Riverside, So Cal
The wealthy pay MORE than their fair share of taxes.... Thank God for wealthy people for without them we lowlifes would pay in excess of 75% to foot the bill for the BS that's spent for no good reason. If Osama bin Obama is elected, we're ALL in for a hurt. He may raise taxes on those with incomes of 250k, but you can be assured that the trickle down tax/cost effect will hurt us all.

Quote:
"Trickle-down economics" never worked in the first place!

Where have you been Bones? Tax and spend is better? Let me keep MY money pal! Check the #'s on the revenue generation under the Reagan years... it will blow your mind. IT WORKS!

D, 9% of the Fed's budget is just the beginning... how about a 50% cut on the BS waste? Illegal immigration ... every illegal immigrant that comes here that is 62 or older, AUTOMATICALLY gets medicare, and their total 'income', derived from various freebies, etc, is approx 2500.00 month! How about we stop that crap?! You always ask for sources for facts etc, google 'illegal immigration and costs'.
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#417953 - 06/29/08 03:08 AM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: Nu2BoatN]
D-Rod Offline
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Registered: 06/25/05
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rolleyes
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#417998 - 06/29/08 10:26 AM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: D-Rod]
seadog Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
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There are no easy answers, but Congress seems to go out of their way to make things even more convoluted. rolleyes Based on the Democrats track record, I would not want to think about four years under Obama. And nothing he has said or done instills confidence that he has a clue about world finances.
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#418025 - 06/29/08 11:15 AM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: Nu2BoatN]
Finger Lakes Boater Administrator Offline
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Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 7859
Loc: Sammamish, Washington
Originally Posted By: Nu2BoatN
If Osama bin Obama is elected


You are welcome to your opinions, Nu2, whatever others may think about them. But, in spite of the greater latitude of expression allowed in the financial areas, there still will be some standards of communication enforced.

If the above characterization was intended to be 'cute', said effort failed miserably. If intended to link the democratic candidate for the US Presidency with a Muslim terrorist, SHAME ON YOU!

If the logic of your argument requires bolstering with such hate-mongering, you might want to rethink your thesis...
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#418057 - 06/29/08 04:41 PM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: Finger Lakes Boater]
D-Rod Offline
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Registered: 06/25/05
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Loc: Jayhawk Land
No proof no truth.
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#418117 - 06/29/08 11:39 PM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: D-Rod]
seadog Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 3780
Loc: Stillwater, OK
I do not hold with the emotion mongering involved with both candidates. I did receive an e-mail containing a Chris Matthews interview with a major Obama supporter. When ask for a list of what Obama had accomplished in Congress, he could not give one single example. This was from someone who worked with him in Congress and part of the Obama entourage. He kept going on about how Obama was an inspiration in Congress. To me, this was very telling.

As I have said before, I think this is a Jimmy Carter vs Jerry Ford election situation. In most elections, the public would be more inclined to go with more conventional candidates. Fear and frustration have the masses without logic or reason. The problem is that we have two choices and no others.
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#418158 - 06/30/08 08:48 AM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: seadog]
WaterMutt Offline
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Registered: 01/14/04
Posts: 9855
Loc: Massachusetts
This election is going to be very telling. Are the American people going to vote for rhetoric or experienced rhetoric. I am quite worried as one candidate wants to continue on the same failing track, and the other wants to drive the train off the track and into the canyon. Neither has spoken of the proper fix we need.
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#418174 - 06/30/08 09:29 AM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: seadog]
Cycleboater Offline
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Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 559
Loc: Charlotte, NC (Lake Norman)
Originally Posted By: seadog
I do not hold with the emotion mongering involved with both candidates. I did receive an e-mail containing a Chris Matthews interview with a major Obama supporter. When ask for a list of what Obama had accomplished in Congress, he could not give one single example. This was from someone who worked with him in Congress and part of the Obama entourage. He kept going on about how Obama was an inspiration in Congress. To me, this was very telling.



I was listening to a radio show on NPR (Diane Reame, I think) last week and a caller (a Obama supporter) said that the ONLY people that can fix the problem in Zimbabwe was Mandela and Obama.

My reaction to this was....."and this would be based on........?" idn
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#418272 - 06/30/08 04:32 PM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: WaterMutt]
D-Rod Offline
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Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 6924
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Originally Posted By: WaterMutt
This election is going to be very telling. Are the American people going to vote for rhetoric or experienced rhetoric. I am quite worried as one candidate wants to continue on the same failing track, and the other wants to drive the train off the track and into the canyon. Neither has spoken of the proper fix we need.


What's the proper fix in your mind, Mutt? Not attacking. Just wondering. smile

Just remember that for every crazy there is on the left...there is a crazy on the right too. They equal each other out. laugh


Edited by D-Rod (06/30/08 05:30 PM)
Edit Reason: Clarification
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#418275 - 06/30/08 05:19 PM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: D-Rod]
Admin Administrator Offline
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Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 2441
Loc: Cyberland
Folks. This topic has prompted two "Moderator" notifications. Both were very much warranted and appropriate action was taken.

The financial area is NOT total open season to say whatever you like.

Crass actions will not be tolerated.
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#418289 - 06/30/08 06:49 PM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: Admin]
deepv Offline
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Registered: 03/17/04
Posts: 5958
Loc: SoCal
I was being good by not getting involved but just watching this post.

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It wasn't me!
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#418294 - 06/30/08 07:06 PM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: deepv]
seadog Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 3780
Loc: Stillwater, OK
This looks to be a very divisive election. Who knows, that could wind up being a good thing. I just read one political columnist that I would call moderately right. His opinion was that Obama has gone so far overboard to track public opinions that he thinks that an Obama presidency would be even shallower than the Clinton era. And another columnist is convinced that McCain is too temperamental and independent to work with Congress. They have drawn the battle lines and it will be gory. It may be that if it gets too bad, the public will say enough. Of course, this is the public that revels in American Idol, Brittany Spears, and Paris Hilton.
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#418327 - 06/30/08 09:23 PM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: seadog]
D-Rod Offline
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pc
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#418341 - 06/30/08 10:51 PM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: MarkHB]
cny boater Offline
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Registered: 03/16/03
Posts: 2718
Loc: Central New York
Originally Posted By: MarkHB
To start, Obama frequently cites $250,000 as the line between those who would be subject to higher taxes and those who wouldn't.


Obviously, this is a ploy to get more votes. I suppose there are hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of registered voters who would like to see the >250K people taxed more.

I was naively (is that a word?) shocked at the taxes I paid for 2007. Business is up a tick over 20% after the first 2 quarters in 2008. Expenses are way down. We will most assuredly NOT be voting for Mr. Obama if he holds to this tax plan...

I provide a very valuable asset to my community, IMO, and it certainly does trickle down to my employees, suppliers, insurance cos, and a whole host of other businesses. So, because of my hard work, long hours, and ambition, Mr. Obama wants to penalize me more than we already are? How about cutting down on the rediculous spending and waste? No, that would make too much sense.
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#418345 - 06/30/08 10:58 PM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: D-Rod]
Finger Lakes Boater Administrator Offline
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Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 7859
Loc: Sammamish, Washington
I've had enough. I'm going to close this thread.

Those (few) of you who venture over to the 'finance' area of the board may have noticed that political threads (that subject requiring no real knowledge---only an opinion and a willingness to declare it correct) attract a great deal of attention.

I notice that a good number of important posts about developments in the "financial" arena go unread and uncommented upon. Maybe I'm wasting my breath here.

Couple of data points for you to consider:

The Dow finished today 19.87% below it's latest high. Adjusted for the value of the dollar (118 in 2001, when the Dow was at 11350, now at 72), it has a constant dollar value below 7,000.

You're paying above $4.00 for a gallon of gas, and prices of staple groceries are through the roof---and you sit still and swallow the crap fed to you (and revised repeatedly) from "official" sources saying inflation is under control.

Real estate values have not only receded, they've headed south faster than any time in the history of these United States, INCLUDING THE DEPRESSION YEARS OF THE 1930s.

And you haven't got time to read more than a paragraph at a time of the reasons why?

And you want to waste our time parroting media planted soundbites and slogans?

My ASSUMPTION is that if you're on this section of the board, you have a real and present interest in what is going on in the financial markets--on a macro scale--and what it may mean to you personally. If that is NOT the case, or if you just want to 'mix it up' with politically motivated rants and diatribes, move on, there's no room for it here.

IGNORE THIS AREA if you're unwilling to do some reading and spend time considering the sources of information. If you want a few fast facts and a paragraph of pablum, report to the financial forums on Yahoo. This isn't the place for it. And if that means these discussions take place among half a dozen interested participants, I prefer THAT to this nonsense.
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#418346 - 06/30/08 11:05 PM Re: How Obama would tax the wealthy [Re: Finger Lakes Boater]
Finger Lakes Boater Administrator Offline
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Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 7859
Loc: Sammamish, Washington
Let me make clear that the post CNY Boater posted as I was creating my latest post was not a part of my consideration--nor would it have been. If everyone's political commentary was as respectful as Bob's offering, we'd have no restrictions on political commentary...
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"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." -- Thomas Jefferson, Letter 1802 to Secretary of the Treasury, Albert Gallatin

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