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#416275 - 06/23/08 04:38 PM Re: Budget Talk [Re: D-Rod]
LanierBoater Offline
Admiral

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 2942
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
LB: There's a REAL NICE place for you in rural Kansas. I've never been to Georgia, I do not know the area. However, I do know that almost ALL of rural Kansas follows your very thought process. It's lead to 0 or negative growth for many towns. I'm not saying all of the ideas are broken, but i've PERSONALLY witnessed 90% of your ideals fail in rural Kansas. I don't mean that derogatory or as a know-it-all comment. I wish you would visit. I would be glad to drive you around to different areas and do some explaining.


Did you ever consider that maybe...just maybe, rural Kansas doesn't want to grow?
_________________________
-------------------------------
"Politicians never accuse you of 'greed' for wanting other people's money --- only for wanting to keep your own money."

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#416278 - 06/23/08 04:42 PM Re: Budget Talk [Re: D-Rod]
LanierBoater Offline
Admiral

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 2942
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
When you look at the spending chart, I don't think you're going to be able to trim 9% of it. If so, please propose where you choose to do it. That leave us with a combination of cuts and revenue increase.

Let the utility and benefit discussions begin!


http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer

Derek,
I invite you to really study the information in the website. It's totally non-partisan, and if you are passionate about saving the country....you owe it to yourself
_________________________
-------------------------------
"Politicians never accuse you of 'greed' for wanting other people's money --- only for wanting to keep your own money."

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#416293 - 06/23/08 05:14 PM Re: Budget Talk [Re: LanierBoater]
D-Rod Offline
Admiral

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 7449
Originally Posted By: LanierBoater
Quote:
LB: There's a REAL NICE place for you in rural Kansas. I've never been to Georgia, I do not know the area. However, I do know that almost ALL of rural Kansas follows your very thought process. It's lead to 0 or negative growth for many towns. I'm not saying all of the ideas are broken, but i've PERSONALLY witnessed 90% of your ideals fail in rural Kansas. I don't mean that derogatory or as a know-it-all comment. I wish you would visit. I would be glad to drive you around to different areas and do some explaining.


Did you ever consider that maybe...just maybe, rural Kansas doesn't want to grow?



They sure bi*ch a lot as things slide south. It's everyone's fault except their own. Then they get desperate. Pretty soon everyone in the World is against them: "They just don't understand" is a common line.

I left.
_________________________
Live your life in the Kelvin scale..........Stay Positive.

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#416294 - 06/23/08 05:14 PM Re: Budget Talk [Re: LanierBoater]
D-Rod Offline
Admiral

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 7449
Originally Posted By: LanierBoater
Quote:
When you look at the spending chart, I don't think you're going to be able to trim 9% of it. If so, please propose where you choose to do it. That leave us with a combination of cuts and revenue increase.

Let the utility and benefit discussions begin!


http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer

Derek,
I invite you to really study the information in the website. It's totally non-partisan, and if you are passionate about saving the country....you owe it to yourself


I'll check it out
_________________________
Live your life in the Kelvin scale..........Stay Positive.

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#416315 - 06/23/08 06:27 PM Re: Budget Talk [Re: D-Rod]
LanierBoater Offline
Admiral

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 2942
Loc: Georgia
Originally Posted By: D-Rod
Originally Posted By: LanierBoater
Quote:
When you look at the spending chart, I don't think you're going to be able to trim 9% of it. If so, please propose where you choose to do it. That leave us with a combination of cuts and revenue increase.

Let the utility and benefit discussions begin!


http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer

Derek,
I invite you to really study the information in the website. It's totally non-partisan, and if you are passionate about saving the country....you owe it to yourself


I'll check it out


cool

You don't have to agree with it all (I don't)...but it will broaden your perspective a little.
_________________________
-------------------------------
"Politicians never accuse you of 'greed' for wanting other people's money --- only for wanting to keep your own money."

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#416343 - 06/23/08 08:00 PM Re: Budget Talk [Re: LanierBoater]
D-Rod Offline
Admiral

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 7449
LB: which direction do you think I need to broaden my perspective? Just wondering.

And that website is definitely a watchdog group. I think a lot of it is crap though. I'm not an "expert" at U.S. Government, but I could easily justify and explain 80% of their points.

Let's forget cutting taxes. Let's cut 9% of the BIG pie I posted. If you were in charge, where would you cut it?
_________________________
Live your life in the Kelvin scale..........Stay Positive.

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#416369 - 06/23/08 10:01 PM Re: Budget Talk [Re: D-Rod]
seadog Offline
Admiral

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 3948
Loc: Stillwater, OK
It is not that we need to wean ourselves off oil, but that we need to reduce our dependence on oil from sources that are not reliable or can be held hostage. We have sources of oil that are not subject to upheavals, but it will come at a cost and cannot be derived quickly. As to other sources of energy, we have essentially two types. Alternative combustion sources or electricity. No matter how you look at it, if you go to an alternate combustion fuel, it will take a long while to develop the engines and infrastructure. There are so many ways that we are exploring converting alternate sources into oil, that we should eventually resolve that issue. As for electricity powered vehicles, it will never be a major factor. It sounds real good, but you still have to find a source of power, and even a wholesale move to nuclear, would not be able to catch up with the demand. The only real way that electric cars have of making it, is to use combustion engines to produce at least some of the electricity, or to go to a magnetic induction grid system to power it. Both will have applications, but not as a total solution.

Now as to the budget issues, they go hand-in-hand with our fuel woes. In many ways, we will benefit from the fuel crises in that it becomes a lot more expensive to import goods. We may even see a move to create hot house facilities that grow our fruits and vegetables year round within a short distance of communities. Langston university researches fish farming and they are arguing that decentralization of the facilities is the future of that industry. The future may hold many challenges for us, and the growth of inner cities is highly likely to be one. Our industries may see a return to a higher level of manufacturing, but if so, it will require a re-education of future generations.

Taxation is a very big problem. We have a very inefficient tax system. It goes through so many twists and turns to get from A to B, and then back to A, that we waste a good deal of it. And the myriad of regulations wastes even more to make sure that every government agency has a say in how it is spent. Look at our road system. Each state pays X dollars for transportation to the feds, who then wastes a bunch of it for projects that have no meaning to the state. Every few years, the state may get someone in power that can shift more of the funds to the state then they send, but that is rare. And they will only fund a percentage of the needed funding, which still leaves the state to raise more transportation funding. Because of the federal regulations, using federal funding adds anywhere from 20-50% onto the cost of construction. Oklahoma has found that building turnpikes is a lot more efficient, they get better roads, and they are self sustaining for less money.

And the biggest issue is that a lot of the programs that get supported from tax dollars, are of very little use for the average person. With the current state of affairs, we know that allowing the public to retain more of their monies, pays in that we keep more money moving and more people working. If Congress would reduce how much of the money is given away, that would not be a problem, but Congress is afraid to make anyone angry. Now I have no problems with making people that have never earned their own living angry, but with no other skills, they tend to riot and be destructive. And since our court system rewards those who attack the public, we cannot just arrest them for their crimes.

We are approaching a breaking point in our society between those who see the government as a hand up when you trip and fall, and those who see the government for their source of tribute. In the past, the serfs toiled to support the King and his court. Now the royalty has been taking to paying the vandals, and goths, and huns, etc. not to do anything. If you tax the serfs too much, they will give up or revolt. If you fail to provide essential central needs, the same will happen.
_________________________
03 Crestliner 2485 LSi 4.3 MPI
63 Newman 15'
01 Dakota Quad Cab 4.7L
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usa1

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#416432 - 06/24/08 07:23 AM Re: Budget Talk [Re: D-Rod]
LanierBoater Offline
Admiral

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 2942
Loc: Georgia
Originally Posted By: D-Rod
LB: which direction do you think I need to broaden my perspective? Just wondering.

And that website is definitely a watchdog group. I think a lot of it is crap though. I'm not an "expert" at U.S. Government, but I could easily justify and explain 80% of their points.

Let's forget cutting taxes. Let's cut 9% of the BIG pie I posted. If you were in charge, where would you cut it?


Derek,
My point about your perspective is that it is your duty as a citizen and taxpayer to keep government in check. Some of your posts reveal that you think our government is the answer to most of our problems. Many (if not a majority) of the founding fathers of this nation thought otherwise. Our government, if left unchecked, will eat itself in power, corruption and mis-use of the taxpayers money.
When you get out of school, and start earning a paycheck, only to see almost half of it disappear before you deposit it into the bank....you will start asking yourself the questions many of us do right now. Where are the results?

Regarding cutting 9% of total expenditures, well.....I would bet my next paycheck that we could wipe that out overnight by getting rid of redundant programs, over staffing,stricter budget oversight, better accounting practices, frivolous earmarks, pork barrel spending, outdated and useless subsidies, and a more efficient and streamlined tax code.
_________________________
-------------------------------
"Politicians never accuse you of 'greed' for wanting other people's money --- only for wanting to keep your own money."

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#416574 - 06/24/08 02:09 PM Re: Budget Talk [Re: LanierBoater]
bekosh Offline
Carpe Dementia
Vice Admiral

Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 157
Loc: West Bend, Wisconsin
The problem we have is that to many people want to use the tax code for social engineering instead of as a source of revenue. Ideally tax rates would be set at a level to optimize the incoming revenue. Instead, we have politicions who want to use it to, punish the rich or to be "fair" or redistribute wealth. You talk about the growth rate in the 90's, how much better would it have been without the drag on the economy from the Clinton tax increases and the Bush tax increases before that? The tremondous economic growth in the 90's was in spite of Bill Clinton's policies, NOT because of them.

And just to show that I can post pretty charts too, heres one that shows very clearly the relationship between rate cuts and increase in the taxable activity. In this case capitol gains.
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#416893 - 06/25/08 01:07 PM Re: Budget Talk [Re: LanierBoater]
LanierBoater Offline
Admiral

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 2942
Loc: Georgia
Here is a perfect example. You make $400M in improper payments (ie. signing people up who don't belong)...and have the audacity to ask for $850M more?

Oh...and check out the stats on Medicare and Medicaid listed in the article. rolleyes


Quote:
Gov't Says Head Start Made Millions in Improper Payments
By Kaitlynn Riely
CNSNews.com Correspondent
June 24, 2008

(CNSNews.com) - A House Appropriations subcommittee has proposed $7.1 billion in funding for the Head Start program for Fiscal Year 2009, even though the program has made over $400 million in improper payments since 2005, according to government audits.

The House Appropriations Subcommittee on Labor, Health and Human Services, Education and Related Agencies released a budget markup last Thursday that provides $7.1 billion for Head Start, $93 million more than President Bush's request.

But according to the Government Accountability Office (GAO), the Head Start program, under the auspices of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), has made millions of dollars in improper payments over the past few years.

Head Start provides child development services to low-income, preschool children, with the aim of better preparing them with the skills they need to be successful in school.

The 2008 report, released in January, estimated that improper payments to Head Start programs totaled $88 million for Fiscal Year (FY) 2007, $210 million in 2006 and $109 million in 2005.

The HHS, which is required to conduct audits each year, lists Head Start as one of seven programs deemed "risk-susceptible" because of improper payments. Other programs on the list include Medicare and Medicaid.
Head Start's improper payments seem minor compared to the Medicaid program, which made improper payments of $12.9 billion in FY 2007, the GAO said.
The HHS defines improper payments to mean payment for an enrolled child from a family whose income exceeds the allowable limit -- meaning in excess of the 10 percent program allowance for families above the income limit.

Auditors deemed children ineligible if their files did not contain a signed statement that the child was eligible to participate or if the file contained documentation that the child was not Head Start eligible.

In an attempt to lower the amount of improper payments made each year, the HHS issued a memorandum after FY 2006 to remind Head Start grantees about the government's documentation requirements, and HHS regional offices are providing increased oversight of the documentation.

These actions, the report said, resulted in the Head Start error rate decreasing from $210 million in FY 2006 to $88 million in 2007.

Cybercast News Service asked a panel of Head Start administrators on a conference call June 19 to explain the improper payments. Ron Herndon, director of the Albina Head Start program in Portland, Ore., said he was not familiar with the report's definition of improper payments.

Sometimes misclassifications occur and make it appear that money is being spent improperly, said Julius Bennett, director of the East Side House Settlement Head Start in New York City.

"How expenditures are classified by the auditor, sometimes it causes expenses to look like they have been spent improperly when there has been justification for the expenses," he said.

Carla Lewis, assistant director of the financial management and assurance team at the GAO, said the congressional watchdog compiled its information from the White House Office of Management and Budget (OMB), which gets its information from the government department audits.

The OMB reviewed the documentation and did not mention any disagreements with what was reported.

"There is no need to contest it because this is what they are reporting in the first place," Lewis said.

Herndon, who is also chairman of the board of the National Head Start Association, said Thursday that Head Start programs nationwide are facing a funding crisis that cannot be ended by the funding increases currently proposed by either President Bush or Congress.

Based on the proposed 2009 budget, Herndon said, Head Start programs across the country will need to cut 14,000 child enrollment slots.

The action Head Start needs, Herndon said, is for funding to be increased by $832 million in FY 2009 to expand enrollment, and for funding to annually rise by $360 million above the previous year's funding for FY 2010 through 2013.

Herndon cited a decline in federal support since 2002 as the reason many Head Start programs had to scale back services in 2006 and 2007. In 2002, $6.54 billion was allocated to Head Start.

"If federal support for Head Start had kept pace with inflation over this period, it would have risen from $6.54 billion in 2002 to $7.77 billion in FY 2008," Herndon said. The National Head Start Association (NHSA) is "optimistic they can work with a new president and a new Congress to get funding back on track," he said.

According to the NHSA, almost 1.1 million children and pregnant women were enrolled in Head Start and Early Head Start programs during 2006-2007.
_________________________
-------------------------------
"Politicians never accuse you of 'greed' for wanting other people's money --- only for wanting to keep your own money."

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#416915 - 06/25/08 01:58 PM Re: Budget Talk [Re: LanierBoater]
230 Mike Offline
IT Not Wannabe
Admiral

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 3281
Loc: Kansas City
Originally Posted By: LanierBoater
...redundant programs, over staffing,stricter budget oversight, better accounting practices, frivolous earmarks, pork barrel spending, outdated and useless subsidies, and a more efficient and streamlined tax code.


LB, I need you to PM me your full name so I can write you in this November.
_________________________


Mike
2005 Four Winns 240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
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