I'm starting the painful process of finding a 3rd car, primarily for our teenage daughter to use. This one kind of caught my eye, but I haven't talked to him yet. Thinking about offering him $1,800 cash if his story pans out.

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/car/727260765.html

KBB.com shows private party values as:

Fair $1300
Good $1700
Excellent $1900

This is a bit daunting, as I haven't bought a used car now in nearly 10 years, and haven't bought one from a stranger in 22 years. I do know there are scams everywhere you look, junk dealers selling them as individuals, etc., etc.

Thoughts?

Here's another interesting one. Higher miles, but possibly a more honest car.

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/car/726431164.html

I think either one would be OK, after discounting both prices. The first one is probably a good deal at <1800 firm, the second, I'm not sure.

I use a rule of thumb for used cars: Every car has a useable life that is generally free of big-ticket repairs. The '92 Oldsmobile with 85k on the frame and 40k on the motor probably has a reasonable life expectancy of 60k miles (~150k miles, total), assuming the motor has some used parts from the original engine. The '99 Pontiac with 143k on it is probably mostly shot, and might get about another 50k, without being completely dead.

Of course, down in Oklahoma, the highways are long and straight and winters are fairly mild... Check out car numero uno and see what the scoop is on that. Can you get a Carfax report?

I assume so, I haven't talked to either one of them yet. I know Carfax can be controversial, but I wouldn't buy a used car without running it.

Mike,
I would look at the Pontiac before the Olds. It's newer, has more safety features, and more to the point....your daughter will like it better!

Does the Olds have airbags and anti-lock brakes? I know during that time frame...it was not always standard.

I agree with LB. I would definitely be looking at the Pontiac. I think age is more important than milage, and 8 years is a long time. Josyln (friend of mine) had a 91 Cutlass that, well, left her standed more than once. Her dad drives it around Indy. She takes their 2002ish Dodge van. At any rate, the Olds has more goofy problems than one could imagine.

Yeah I see that side too. I'm trying not to be swayed by the fact that the Pontiac is exactly the car my daughter has wanted for more than a year. On the other hand, this era Grand Am seems to be fairly reliable and popular (parts).

I wouldn't mind high miles on the right car, but I'm old school enough that 143K miles seems like a heck of a lot.

I have 167,000 on my car. It's 4 years older.

Personally, if it does not have airbags, I would not buy it for my kid.

I agree, Andy. That's one of the basic requirements.

I have always liked the Pontiac cars for kids. Sporty, larger and seem more on the reliable side.

I have always wondered. How can we all be sure that air bags; when they get this old, they will work? Besides the light on the dash how do we know for sure? Anybody seen any info on this?
In a couple years we will be in the same boat for our eldest.

We looked at a used Grand Am for my son a few years ago.

My mechanic - said that one of the late '90s era 4cyl GM engines was a bit suspect. I cannot remember now which GM engine he meant, but the '99 Grand Am we looked at had that engine.

We took the car to him; he said - not that engine; wouldn't buy it for his kid.

He said that for the most part, if you took care of the engine from when new, it was OK. But if like most folks, if the engine had any deferred maintenance on it, it was fairly problematic.

He indicated things like just replacing a water pump was hundreds of dollars, due to the "unique" engineering of that engine meant having to tear it apart just to get to the pump.

I honestly cannot remember which model engine it was, other than it was on the Grand Am we looked at. I am sure CNY can fill you in on the engine to stay away from.

So before buying a used car (really, any used car), I would at least take a car like that to a good mechanic and pay him the going rate to go over it before buying it.

The 99 was the first year of the "new" style that ran until 2005. It was Pontiac's best seller too.

Assuming we're looking before 2002, there are three engines. The 2.4L I4, the 3.1L V6, and the 3.4L V6.

The 3.4L V6 replaced the 3.1 V6 in 1999. The old 2.4L I4 was replaced in 2002.

None of these engines compare to a Honda or Toyota engine from the period in power or smoothness.

GM took too much cost out of the Grand Ams and are a car I would avoid period, unless you can find one with very very low miles. There are just too many other cars to choose from that are better.

The water pump on the 2.4L requires the removal of the timing chain to replace, as the timing chain drives it.

The 3.1 and 3.4's are plagued with the lower intake manifold gasket problem. Even if it was done, chances are it was done incorrectly. Even if it was done correctly, Grand Ams are a poster child for pattern failures that I've made a lot of money off of.

BTW, the Dexcool Class Action Lawsuit (Dexcoolcoolsettlement.com) is a joke at best, and the ones benefitting the most are the lawyers, as usual.

It's unlikely that we'll buy anything with a 4 cylinder, but the info on the 6's in those cars is news to me. I appreciate it, Bob, and everyone else also.

I'm thinking 10 years old is about the oldest I want to go, but for cost reasons I'd like to go about that far back.

I've wondered for years about aging air bags. I guess if you're really in doubt, you could try to take the column apart and see what happens .

There seem to be a lot of ~10 year old Taurus' for sale. I have a hard time trusting a Ford car engine and/or tranny that old, but that may be a "preconceived notion" that was never accurate in the first place. When I play the word association game and think "Taurus" or "Windstar", I think, "PO$."

Anything Chrysler is absolutely off the table, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Having had the experience of my wife's life very possibly saved by airbags less than a year ago, I consider them a must, preferably 2nd generation at least.

I'd love to put her in a Honda, but as everyone knows they still want half the cost of a new one at 200K miles. I know there are good reasons for that, but I don't see how the economics can add up for a first car.

I've had Ford trucks with well over 250k miles and they ran like new,(still on the road). I saw a Dodge Stratus at a junk yard wrecked with 475k was running fine when it hit the tree. I'm driving a Chevy truck with 232k now, sold one 6 yrs ago with 295k guy has it up to 450k now. Many Tauruses will last 10 yrs, they are cheap because there were so many sold, look for a good one.

I had a college friend just sell his 98 Taurus with 350k on it. It was falling apart though. No windshield wipers etc. Also, CNY might have more info, but the steering racks seem to be a common item to blow up on those cars.

Good mileage though. 28/30 on the highway!

The primary issue with the Taurus/Sable was the trannies would go around 100,000 miles. But it was of the generation where many of the trannies only lasted that long. Because of the sheer numbers of them, it is often easy to get a good buy on one. The Buick Century is another car that is 'uncool', but can usually be a good deal. I am also seeing the Ford Contour as a very popular car right now around campus. I might also suggest looking into a Ford Ranger. Low price, solid build, and decent fuel mileage.

Granted that the Sable I had was an '89, but it was such a huge P.O.S. that I swore to never darken a Ford/Mercury dealer's door ever again. You can get a decent Honda that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Not sure what you're looking to spend.

I'm very big on Ford trucks, but have a dim view of their mid-size and compacts in the last 15 years or so. Still, if they had a model that has proven to defy my image of them, I'd certainly consider it.

If it was one of my boys a small pickup would be a top choice, but for my daughter a pickup would be the equivalent of a VW "Thing." Even I wouldn't do that to her .

For this car I'd like to keep it to around $3K. For a first car, the only reason I'm willing to go that high is for a few safety features.

The car we gave my kids was a 2000 Sable with 114K. We had bought it with 20K on it. Car was very reliable. I kept up the routine maint on it knowing the kids would inherit it.

The second day my daughter drove it to school she was in the left turn lane and the light was going from red to green. She came to a stop behind the line. About four seconds later the school bus behind her hit her and knocked her into the middle of the intersection.

The car was totaled. But you could look at the rear end and see that it had done just what it was supposed to do. It absorbed a lot of energy and accordion folded itself. The gas tank was mangled but did not leak. The kids were shook up but no long term damage.

The thing about the model of car is there are lots of them about and you can get parts for them for not a lot of money. They do well in protecting the occupants and you can generally work on them yourself. I love OBDII, saved me some bucks.

I would not hesitate to recommend a used Taurus/Sable to anyone looking for a car for their kid.

Also this car model was vary popular with older drivers who tend to not abuse a vehicle and keep up on the repairs.

Mike: What do you mean by huge PO*S*?

Its true that the Taurus/stables from that era feel like POJ's. ANd more than likely, a windshield wiper motor isn't going to work, power windows button fail, rear defrost stop working, etc.

The engines, on the other hand, are much more reliable. I don't know much about those transmission.

I have 3 friends that drive (or recently) drove Taurus. Two 1998's and a 1999.

The 1999 only has about 70,000 miles. His grandma owned it...but passed away. His parents took it, drove it for a couple of years before he got it. His dad is the head engineer for a company that makes car parts. At any rate, the vehicle was WELL maintained. Power steering rack went out in it in Gardner. Another friend drives a 1998 model. Poorly maintained. It still works. Just a couple of weeks ago, she called. Heading back to Lawrence, in Garnett, smoke billowing out of the hood, no steering. Guess what? Another steering rack. The other 1998 Taurus is the car I spoke of before, with 300+k miles. The friend's Uncle has a 99 Contour with 50k miles (it just sat!) he sold to him for $1500. Michael sold the Taurus to someone around here.

Outside of the steering racks, and all of the "little" things, I think that era is pretty bulletproof engine wise.

Buying a used car is tough. There are so many to choose from, that I would recommend narrowing down to a specific car, then looking at every one of that model available in the area over a few weeks. Of course sometimes you don't have time to do all that shopping.

However, If you drive five or six very similar cars in a short period of time, you'll begin to see the differences between them.

Personally, I try to always buy a car from an individual rather than a dealer. First, you'll probably get a better price, and second, they might be able to tell you something about the history of the car, if you talk to them long enough. I look for a car that hasn't been smoked in, has newer tires - has a decent body and runs and drives perfectly.

Let's face it, you will always be lied to about the true condition of the car. Nobody will tell you - "well it started nickel and diming me to death, so I bought a new one and now I have to unload this on on the first sucker that comes along".

I recently bought a 96 Lexus ES300 to replace my son's 92 car that was nearly identical that got totalled in an accident. I looked at about 10 cars from 95-2000 - I didn't buy the cheapest one available, but didn't buy the newest one either. Most of them I could tell if they were good or not by driving them around the block. The car we bought has been perfect so far. I drove it 600 miles on a business trip a couple weeks ago and it runs flawless - doesn't look quite as perfect as the first one we had though.

OK, I'll include Taurus in the candidates (any thoughts, Bob?).

I agree about buying from individuals, definitely. I pretty much don't even look at dealer ads. Of course, there are also dealers pretending to be individuals.

I'm a small used car dealer, in a small community in Central Pa and have spent thousands that I didn't have to in order to keep my customers happy. The guy down the street selling his kid's car won't give you a nickle if blows up on the way home. He gets cash, which you can't stop payment on, I trust my customers and in ten years have had 2 bad checks, therefore they trust me. Most of my business is repeat business, so I am offended by being called a liar, I tell everything I know about all my vehicles, and me and my wife drive them all.
"Let's face it, you will always be lied to"..Indyboater

bperg, I don't want to speak for Indy, but I'm 100% certain he didn't mean to offend anyone. I also believe 100% what you're telling us, but it's also a fact that you are one in a million when it comes to used car dealers. It's unfortunate that the few honest people have to deal with the results of all the rest.

I don't think he was targeting dealers in his comment about lying. He was simply pointing out that anyone selling a used car is going to maximize its positives and minimize any negatives, and all too often they cross a line in doing so. Most individuals do the same.

I know that around here, I stand a better chance of finding an honest individual than I do of finding an honest dealer. No, the individual won't do a thing if it craters on the way home, but neither will most dealers around here. Buying the right car, from the right person, I might have some chance of at least knowing what I'm really getting.

If I was anywhere close to PA I'd come buy a car from you .