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#411747 - 06/06/08 10:24 AM Re: I predict...oil prices will crash. [Re: On Holiday]
deepv Online   happy
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Admiral

Registered: 03/17/04
Posts: 6623
Loc: SoCal
Gas up $0.04 from yesterday am to yesterday pm at the local ARCO.

Diesel down $0.40 in the past week!! grin
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#411753 - 06/06/08 11:00 AM Re: I predict...oil prices will crash. [Re: deepv]
Finger Lakes Boater Administrator Online   content
Admiral

Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 8296
Loc: Sammamish, Washington
Iran all over the news this morning. This is beginning to get worrisome...
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#411755 - 06/06/08 11:19 AM Re: I predict...oil prices will crash. [Re: Finger Lakes Boater]
WaterMutt Offline
Bilge Rat
Admiral

Registered: 01/14/04
Posts: 10214
Loc: Massachusetts
So just to update the score:

Unemployment numbers surpassed anyone's guesses this morning.
Oil has surged to an all time high today.
Dollar fell hard.
Credit Card companies are scrambling as defaults are expected to rise.
S&P has hit 11 year low.
6:1 fall to rise ratio on the Dow
And now we may be starting WWIII with a depleted worn out military force.

Uh, anyone else up for revolt??
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#411787 - 06/06/08 01:09 PM Re: I predict...oil prices will crash. [Re: WaterMutt]
Finger Lakes Boater Administrator Online   content
Admiral

Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 8296
Loc: Sammamish, Washington
It's revolting, all right.

Last month's numbers revised downward (again), and today's TERRIBLE numbers still massaged beyond belief. When will the lying stop?
_________________________
"Corporations have been enthroned, and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of a few, and the Republic is destroyed." -- Abraham Lincoln "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." - Abraham Lincoln -

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#411793 - 06/06/08 01:28 PM Re: I predict...oil prices will crash. [Re: Finger Lakes Boater]
BillyB Offline
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Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 7502
Loc: Peoria, Illinois
Surely when a Democrat is in the White House, all the lying will stop. thumb
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#411797 - 06/06/08 01:49 PM Re: I predict...oil prices will crash. [Re: BillyB]
WaterMutt Offline
Bilge Rat
Admiral

Registered: 01/14/04
Posts: 10214
Loc: Massachusetts
It is almost as if everything is being buffered to slow the decent and have a controlled crash, versus a downward spike with bouncing carnage at the bottom. Problem is, the methods to keep everything under control are going to basically force us into a longer dip with a much more difficult recovery.
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#411800 - 06/06/08 02:03 PM Re: I predict...oil prices will crash. [Re: WaterMutt]
deepv Online   happy
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Registered: 03/17/04
Posts: 6623
Loc: SoCal
Vote Libertarian!
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#411807 - 06/06/08 02:45 PM Re: I predict...oil prices will crash. [Re: deepv]
Nu2BoatN Offline
Admiral

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 2723
Loc: Riverside, So Cal
Write your congress rep and tell them to open Anwar and other offshore areas, develop shale and coal, and DO IT NOW!


If it could be done, I would urge a bill introduced to charge all those that stand in the way of this, of TREASON! This continuous run up of oil, coupled with all the 'global warming' bills that would crush the economy, the environmentalist wackos standing in the way of progress, it's NUTS!!!!It WILL bring America to our knees, ripe for a military strike from ANYONE capable, and we won't have the $$, troops, nor the hardware to retaliate.... treasonous!
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#411862 - 06/06/08 06:29 PM Re: I predict...oil prices will crash. [Re: BillyB]
D-Rod Offline
Admiral

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 7487
Originally Posted By: BillyB
Surely when a Democrat is in the White House, all the lying will stop. thumb
Hey! Didn't someone question me recently when I said we were in a hole? I really like for the person to explain how we're doing so great today!!
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#411880 - 06/06/08 08:18 PM Re: I predict...oil prices will crash. [Re: D-Rod]
BillyB Offline
Admiral

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 7502
Loc: Peoria, Illinois
I can't wait for someone to explain how we are going to be doing any better in November or January. Until we actually clear the way for more oil exploration in this country, oil is not gonna get cheap again. And I don't think even the Republican candiate for president is trying real hard to make that happen. And we know the Democratic controlled House, Senate, and presidential candidate aren't going to support it. So we are screwed.
Until today, I thought this drop in oil price was gonna stick. But alas a Peruvian stick bug ate an ant and the moron oil futures buyers over-reacted.


Edited by BillyB (06/06/08 08:19 PM)
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#411890 - 06/06/08 09:35 PM Re: I predict...oil prices will crash. [Re: BillyB]
seadog Offline
Admiral

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 3962
Loc: Stillwater, OK
The oil prices are going to keep going up, but remember that it is more the dollar going down than anything else. Not real comforting, but with China so attached to the dollar and our economy, they will suffer more than we will over the long term. Eventually things will settle into a balance and we get all comfy until the next crises. The news is that they were having riots in India over an 11% gasoline price hike. Our country has seen much larger hikes and while it has made changes to our way of doing things, it has not reduced us to ruin. I do not expect that I have any great insight to the future, but I do have confidence that we will continue on with improving our lot in life.
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#412912 - 06/11/08 11:27 AM Re: I predict...oil prices will crash. [Re: seadog]
Bowline Offline
What's higher than
Admiral

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 4285
Loc: Kansas City, MO
Quote:
The news is that they were having riots in India over an 11% gasoline price hike. Our country has seen much larger hikes and while it has made changes to our way of doing things, it has not reduced us to ruin.


That's because a majority of the population in India lives in poverty, even in the face of a growing number of people who are becoming better off what with the advent of the rest of the world offshoring high tech jobs and call center jobs to India. The GNI/person in India in 2006 was $820. that's averaging EVERYONE into the picture. They simply can't afford the slightest rise in cost of living.
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#412931 - 06/11/08 12:06 PM Re: I predict...oil prices will crash. [Re: Bowline]
MarkHB Offline
Dressed for dinner
Admiral

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 4844
Loc: CA
Quote:
The GNI/person in India in 2006 was $820. that's averaging EVERYONE into the picture.


Means nothing without the cost of living.
But you are still correct, India certainly has a lot of poverty that most in this country have never or will never see.

Mark
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#412976 - 06/11/08 03:27 PM Re: I predict...oil prices will crash. [Re: MarkHB]
230 Mike Offline
IT Not Wannabe
Admiral

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 3302
Loc: Kansas City
Originally Posted By: MarkHB
...India certainly has a lot of poverty that most in this country have never or will never see.


Well... that may depend on how many more jobs we send there. I'm thinking lowest common denominator, given the economic priorities in this country.
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#413635 - 06/13/08 04:14 PM Re: I predict...oil prices will crash. [Re: 230 Mike]
seadog Offline
Admiral

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 3962
Loc: Stillwater, OK
Quote:
The Sierra Club and the Natural Resources Defense Council, or NRDC, successfully pressured the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to block ConocoPhillips’ expansion of its Roxana, Ill., gasoline refinery, which processes heavy crude oil from Canada, the Wall Street Journal reported on Monday.

The project would have expanded the volume of Canadian crude processed from 60,000 barrels per day to more than 500,000 barrels a day by 2015. After the Illinois EPA had approved the expansion, the green groups petitioned the federal EPA to block it, alleging ConocoPhillips wasn’t using the best available technology for reducing emissions of sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides.

Apparently, the plant’s planned 95 percent reduction in sulfur dioxide emissions and 25 percent reduction in nitrogen oxides wasn’t green enough. NRDC’s opposition is quite ironic since ConocoPhillips and the activist group actually are teammates in the global warming game. Both belong to the U.S. Climate Action Partnership, a coalition of eco-activist groups and large companies that is lobbying for global warming regulation.

So even though ConocoPhillips is aiding and abetting the NRDC to achieve the green dream of absolute government control over the U.S. energy supply, the enviros still are in take-no-prisoners mode, refusing to allow the expansion of a single refinery.

Imagine what the rest of us can expect from the greens.

Meanwhile, in California, green groups are working through the state attorney general’s office to block the upgrade of the Chevron refinery in the city of Richmond. The $800 million upgrade essentially would expand the useable oil supply by permitting the refinery to process lower-quality, less-expensive crude oil.

California Attorney General, ex-Gov. and climate crusader Jerry Brown claims the upgrade will produce an additional 900,000 tons of greenhouse gas emissions per year. But Chevron says the upgrade actually will reduce the emissions by 220,000 tons.

Whose figure is closer to the truth?

It’s hard to know for sure at this point, but it’s worth noting that material false statements made by Chevron are prosecutable under the federal securities laws and California state law, while Brown and the activists pretty much can say whatever they want without legal accountability.

Whatever the facts are, Brown and the city of Richmond insist that Chevron eliminate 900,000 tons of greenhouse gas emissions so that the upgrade will be "carbon neutral." While the greens remain vehemently opposed to the project, it seems their plans for blocking the refinery might go awry as Brown and the local government eventually may side with Chevron rather than the greens, but only because the company has deep pockets and is open to being shaken down.

Brown and the city have proposed that Chevron ensure that half the total emissions-reduction projects be undertaken on-site at the refinery and the other half be done either in the city of Richmond itself or elsewhere in California.

Translating the latter part of this "offer that can’t be refused:" Chevron essentially must purchase 450,000 tons of "carbon credits" annually from the city of Richmond or the state. As the street value of carbon credits is about $10 per ton, Chevron is being "green-mailed" to the tune of perhaps $4.5 million per year to upgrade its refinery — amounting to perhaps a 1 percent annual "tax" on the gains in gross revenue produced by the upgrade. And the local government officials are not the least embarrassed about this extortion.

"When you’re dealing with a refinery where the project will cost close to a billion dollars and someone like Chevron with tremendous resources, that’s not a constraint, so they should do everything possible," an unidentified state official told Carbon Control News in a June 9 article.

The farcical nature of the entire transaction is underscored by that state official’s apparent lack of understanding about how greenhouse gas-induced global warming is supposed to work.

The official told Carbon Control News that the greenhouse gas emission reductions "are vital to protect low-income minority communities in the Richmond area, which already suffer disproportionate pollution impacts."

Climate alarmism, of course, is based on the notion of global emissions causing global warming, not local emissions causing local warming; moreover, the allegation that low-income minority populations are disproportionately harmed by industrial emissions — the basis of the so-called "environmental justice" concept of the 1990s — hasn’t stuck since no scientific evidence supports it.

Though green and local government shenanigans can be a source of endless amusement, let’s get back to the main point. As the 2005 hurricane season dramatized, oil production, itself, is only one factor in determining gasoline supply and prices.

Damage to Gulf Coast refineries by hurricanes Katrina and Rita reduced gasoline supplies and increased prices worldwide — a real problem given that U.S. refineries operate at or near capacity thanks to other green constraints.

We may produce all the oil we need, but if we can’t refine it, then it won’t do much for reducing gasoline supply problems. So while working to expand domestic drilling, we’ll simultaneously need to expand domestic refining capacity.

It will be quite the Pyrrhic victory to finally produce oil from ANWR and then not be able to do anything with it.

Steven Milloy publishes JunkScience.com and DemandDebate.com. He is a junk science expert, advocate of free enterprise and an adjunct scholar at the Competitive Enterprise


Edited by seadog (06/13/08 04:16 PM)
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