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#395622 - 04/08/08 01:59 PM Re: VP SX or DP? [Re: Al]
etyppo Offline
Vice Admiral

Registered: 06/25/07
Posts: 480
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Al

The boat does have a bit of low speed bow wander, which is typical of I/Os, but so did my Vista with DP. I didn't really notice any more bow wander with the Sundowner. My worst boat bow wander wise was my 18ft Rinker. I think bow wander might be less of a problem as you increase size.


What influences bow wander other than single vs. duo prop? My current boat with an SX doesn't wander at all, but I've driven larger boats with (single) Bravo 3s/Volvo DPs that wander badly.
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#395629 - 04/08/08 02:50 PM Re: VP SX or DP? [Re: etyppo]
Frantically Relaxing Offline
Never get out of the boat
Admiral

Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 6545
After all the boat's I've owned, I've come to the conclusion that bow wander has nothing to do with the drive, and everything to do with the shape of the boat's hull. I've only owned 2 boats that didn't wander, and I STILL own them--the houseboat and the pontoon boat. Every other boat I've owned, regardless of drive - twins, singles, jet, outboard and duoprop - not a one of them would just go straight at idle speed.

As for the topic at hand, I agree with everyone else, DP would be preferable to a single prop!
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#395644 - 04/08/08 03:35 PM Re: VP SX or DP? [Re: Frantically Relaxing]
Al Offline
Nautical Alchemy
Admiral

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 11541
Loc: Battle Creek/Grand Haven, MI
I think it mostly has to do with the deadrise and balance. If you think of it, if you try to balance a razor blade on a table, it won't stay in place. But if you balance a cup, its pretty easy.

These are the extreme examples of a flat and vee bottom, but you get the idea.

Don't know if that is correct or not, but thats my theory.

My Carver on the other hand has engines in the middle of the boat, so I think while it has a decent 16 deg deadrise for a 32ft boat, the center of gravity in the middle seems to help a lot.

But I never had an outboard that wandered either - but every one of those boats had a shallow deadrise. So maybe its a combination of all of the above. I bet each boat has its own characteristic - at least all of my boats did.

Even my Vista had some bow wander, but I found that a lot of time, it was because I had the trim tabs set to keep the boat level under plane, but at no-wake speed, one side had more drag than the other - so run the tabs up when you are at no-wake if you have them. That might also help.

Its a bit annoying to begin with, but you get used to it. Except the Rinker, the bow wander was so bad it was hard to dock the boat.
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#395660 - 04/08/08 04:38 PM Re: VP SX or DP? [Re: Al]
firecadet613 Offline
Serenity Again
Admiral

Registered: 07/16/06
Posts: 1142
Loc: Brownsburg, IN
It seems there is no right answer. Part of what I'm factoring in is the cost of replacement props on a DP, about $1500. I kept the SS Michigan Wheel prop off my SR, I'm a step ahead with the SX if it's the proper pitch. Comparing the bigger engine with the SX to a smaller engine with the DP is hard though, there is only a difference of 10HP between the two. Top speed is of a bit of concern to me, although I rarely go full WOT due to increased engine wear. I have yet to drive a boat with a DP, only a single prop so far.
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2004 Four Winns 225 Sundowner 5.7Gi DP
2004 Dodge Durango Limited HEMI AWD

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#395698 - 04/08/08 06:56 PM Re: VP SX or DP? [Re: firecadet613]
Lou C Offline
Admiral

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 978
Loc: Long Island NY
Don't forget that it's important to remove those dual props every year to grease the prop shaft, if you don't it can be a real pain to get them off from what I hear. In the waters I boat in (salt and some rocks!) I prefer a single prop, and an aluminum one at that to cut down on both galvinisim and potential impact damage to the drive. Just carry spares!
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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon 4.3 OMC
98 Jeep Grand Cherokee

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#395700 - 04/08/08 07:03 PM Re: VP SX or DP? [Re: Lou C]
firecadet613 Offline
Serenity Again
Admiral

Registered: 07/16/06
Posts: 1142
Loc: Brownsburg, IN
Your DOA if you damage your props on a DP drive, correct?
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2004 Four Winns 225 Sundowner 5.7Gi DP
2004 Dodge Durango Limited HEMI AWD

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#395711 - 04/08/08 07:40 PM Re: VP SX or DP? [Re: firecadet613]
Scott L Offline
Admiral

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 3732
Loc: NJ
DP replacement props can be had for most sets @ $800 or less NIB - I have a set of F8's that I picked up on EBay new for $540
w/ shipping.

You would also need to have a specail DP wrench with you to swap out the set.

You can convert an SX to a DP - if you find a great deal on a boat with an SX, it may be viable soultion.
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#395720 - 04/08/08 08:20 PM Re: VP SX or DP? [Re: firecadet613]
BillyB Offline
Admiral

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 7502
Loc: Peoria, Illinois
Originally Posted By: firecadet613
Your DOA if you damage your props on a DP drive, correct?

Only if they are damaged so bad that the boat shakes to bad to run it. And you might be DOA in an SX with the same damage, cause you'd want to have the drive checked just the same to make sure you didn't break anything else.
All you "aluminum props save the rest of the drive" guys, it's an urban legend at best. Also, some VP DP hubs have rubber hubs, so they would "give" the same as an aluminum with a rubber hub. Oh, and there are aluminum DP propsets out there. Not sure what the letter is, but there is a whole series of them.
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#395752 - 04/09/08 03:28 AM Re: VP SX or DP? [Re: D-Rod]
Al Offline
Nautical Alchemy
Admiral

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 11541
Loc: Battle Creek/Grand Haven, MI
Here is some essential information you may want to look at regarding engine selection:

Four Winns Fast Facts

Its a set of detailed specifications Four Winns dealers have, and I pulled out the one for a 2004 225.

The performance section provides detailed information for all of the engine combinations you are considering, cruise efficienty, top speed, and so on.

I found that the 1999 edition performance data was pretty close for my Sundowner, and sort of close for my Vista, which I think was due to having bottom paint on the boat (some bottom paints slow the boat down a bit).



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"Yesterday's Dreams"
1995 Carver 325 Aft Cabin



Posts are amateur opinion only. You assume all responsibility for any action you take as a result of reading my posts.

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#395767 - 04/09/08 06:24 AM Re: VP SX or DP? [Re: Al]
firecadet613 Offline
Serenity Again
Admiral

Registered: 07/16/06
Posts: 1142
Loc: Brownsburg, IN
DP it is...I'm looking more now at a 2005 with a 5.7Gi/DP...best of both worlds smile Al if you could PM me with any additional Sundowner info you have that'd be great!
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2004 Four Winns 225 Sundowner 5.7Gi DP
2004 Dodge Durango Limited HEMI AWD

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#395781 - 04/09/08 07:02 AM Re: VP SX or DP? [Re: firecadet613]
BillyB Offline
Admiral

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 7502
Loc: Peoria, Illinois
Originally Posted By: firecadet613
...I'm looking more now at a 2005 with a 5.7Gi/DP...best of both worlds smile

Indeed!!! thumb
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#395837 - 04/09/08 10:46 AM Re: VP SX or DP? [Re: BillyB]
firecadet613 Offline
Serenity Again
Admiral

Registered: 07/16/06
Posts: 1142
Loc: Brownsburg, IN
Is there a hub kit for a prop on a DP drive, just like I had on my alpha one, or is it prop splines on drive splines?
_________________________
2004 Four Winns 225 Sundowner 5.7Gi DP
2004 Dodge Durango Limited HEMI AWD

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#395846 - 04/09/08 11:22 AM Re: VP SX or DP? [Re: firecadet613]
BillyB Offline
Admiral

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 7502
Loc: Peoria, Illinois
The hubs (if they have any) are built into the props.
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#395865 - 04/09/08 12:32 PM Re: VP SX or DP? [Re: BillyB]
F14bombcat Offline
www.captchrisms.com
Admiral

Registered: 11/06/03
Posts: 4864
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted By: BillyB
The hubs (if they have any) are built into the props.

Not sure thats entirely true. I'm looking at my one parts catalog now, and you can buy hub kits for the F series props.
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#395866 - 04/09/08 12:43 PM Re: VP SX or DP? [Re: F14bombcat]
trooplewis Offline
Admiral

Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 3428
Loc: San Diego
F14, that must be for if you tear one up and have to replace it. They are pressed into the props.

I can tell you from experience that my props and my drive gave up the ghost before the hubs did what (I thought) they are supposed to do, so as far as I'm concerned they are a permanent part of the prop.

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