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#395361 - 04/07/08 05:40 PM Re: What temperature do you run? [Re: Al]
deepv Offline
Safety Officer
Admiral

Registered: 03/17/04
Posts: 6678
Loc: SoCal
Originally Posted By: Al
The problem as I see it, deepv, is the oil analysis is giving you too much to worry about. funny

(sorry, I could not resist the humor)

Or maybe its closer to a Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk (in my best Curly Stooges voice).


Yeah, yeah, yeah. It has permitted me to run my truck out a lot longer and discovered things going on with my engine. Maybe it isn't worth it as much with the boat.
_________________________
72% of fatal boat accidents are caused by
boaters that haven't taken a safe boating course.

2001 Sea Ray Sundeck 190
5.0 EFI Alpha I,Generation 2
2002 4x4 LB Lariat CC F250, 7.3PSD


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#395372 - 04/07/08 06:07 PM Re: What temperature do you run? [Re: deepv]
Frantically Relaxing Offline
Never get out of the boat
Admiral

Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 6542
Almost forgot, the houseboat thermostats are 140°, pretty chilly. Probably got plenty of bad things in those oil pans...Just checked a pic of my babyliner's dash, gauge is just a tic above 175. They do seem to be running the newer engines a lot warmer than the old ones.
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#395381 - 04/07/08 06:44 PM Re: What temperature do you run? [Re: Frantically Relaxing]
Lowrider78 Offline
Admiral

Registered: 01/31/04
Posts: 796
Loc: Newton Ks
My engine idles arround 170 to 180*.

Runs 135-140 flat out (no thermostat in the system).

Sounds like a problem of accumulation from running rich all the time.
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#395399 - 04/07/08 07:33 PM Re: What temperature do you run? [Re: Frantically Relaxing]
FormulaFanMN Offline
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Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 480
Loc: SE Minnesota
DeepV,

What brand and weight of oil were you running ???

What was the fuel dilution percentage ???
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#395413 - 04/07/08 08:22 PM Re: What temperature do you run? [Re: FormulaFanMN]
Lou C Offline
Admiral

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 978
Loc: Long Island NY
My 20 year old OMC raw water cooled with a 160 stat runs right at 160. With raw water cooling you don't want to go much hotter than that, keep in mind a raw water system it not pressurized like closed cooling. That means you can have localized hot spots even though the engine may not be reading overheating on the gauge. With closed cooling you can go hotter, just like a car system because the pressure cap has the effect of raising the boiling point of the coolant.

As far as fuel dilution, I'd check the color of the spark plug insulators, are they black, if so the mixture could be too rich. But always better to err on the side of rich vs lean for a marine engine that runs at 3/4 of max power most of the time. So you may well wind up leaving well enough alone!
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#395415 - 04/07/08 08:27 PM Re: What temperature do you run? [Re: FormulaFanMN]
T-Squared Offline
Vice Admiral

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 367
Loc: Northwest Indiana
Deep, "higher" fuel dilition percentages are perfectly normal on a marine engine. I'm also curious as to how bad the UOA was. How did the TBN fare against the dilution?

For comparison,my 2 UOAs showed 1.5% fuel/ 335 flashpoint after 108 hrs and .5% fuel/ 375 flashpoint after 75 hrs.
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#395421 - 04/07/08 09:14 PM Re: What temperature do you run? [Re: T-Squared]
trooplewis Offline
Admiral

Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 3428
Loc: San Diego
Mine idles at 170° and at normal running speeds climbs to 180°

You are suffering from paralysis by analysis.

Change the oil every 50 hours or so and have a great time boating!

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#395481 - 04/08/08 07:21 AM Re: What temperature do you run? [Re: trooplewis]
deepv Offline
Safety Officer
Admiral

Registered: 03/17/04
Posts: 6678
Loc: SoCal
I was running Valvoline extreme blue 15W40.

Fuel dilution 1.64%

TBN 3.9

TAN 2.27

This oil held up better than the Merc 25W40 from last year's analysis, but exhibited a higher percentage of fuel dilution.
_________________________
72% of fatal boat accidents are caused by
boaters that haven't taken a safe boating course.

2001 Sea Ray Sundeck 190
5.0 EFI Alpha I,Generation 2
2002 4x4 LB Lariat CC F250, 7.3PSD


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#395482 - 04/08/08 07:22 AM Re: What temperature do you run? [Re: deepv]
deepv Offline
Safety Officer
Admiral

Registered: 03/17/04
Posts: 6678
Loc: SoCal
"paralysis by analysis"

I've heard that before in just the form "analysis paralysis"!
_________________________
72% of fatal boat accidents are caused by
boaters that haven't taken a safe boating course.

2001 Sea Ray Sundeck 190
5.0 EFI Alpha I,Generation 2
2002 4x4 LB Lariat CC F250, 7.3PSD


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#395668 - 04/08/08 05:21 PM Re: What temperature do you run? [Re: deepv]
T-Squared Offline
Vice Admiral

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 367
Loc: Northwest Indiana
3.9 TBN...lots of "cushion" still there Deep.
Did you pull the 2 samples under the same conditions?
Any chance you might need a cleaning dose of a Sea-Foam type cleaner, or do you run the FP3000 in the boat also?
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#395679 - 04/08/08 05:47 PM Re: What temperature do you run? [Re: T-Squared]
deepv Offline
Safety Officer
Admiral

Registered: 03/17/04
Posts: 6678
Loc: SoCal
The TBN was good but the iron was getting up there.
Last year it was in March and was sent in pretty quick. This year I sampled in January but the sample sat in the bottle for 2 months.
No additives used but I am going to be using FP3000 and some Bio Valve Lube from Renewable Lube.
_________________________
72% of fatal boat accidents are caused by
boaters that haven't taken a safe boating course.

2001 Sea Ray Sundeck 190
5.0 EFI Alpha I,Generation 2
2002 4x4 LB Lariat CC F250, 7.3PSD


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#395763 - 04/09/08 05:57 AM Re: What temperature do you run? [Re: deepv]
T-Squared Offline
Vice Admiral

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 367
Loc: Northwest Indiana
My bad. By "same conditions" I meant were both samples pulled say after the same warm-up time, or is it possible the results got skewed by something along those lines..samples taken after differnt running conditions..???

The factories run our motors rich and cool to keep 'em living with the loads and RPMs they have to put up with. I'll bet a UOA of ANY "stock" marine motor would show fuel dilution that would be cause for concern in a road vehicle...the nature of the beast so to speak.
I think the key is to keep good, high quality oil in her, and be diligent in keeping the fuel and ignition systems as good as you can.
_________________________
"Toy Story"
Y2K Crownline 266BR
454Mag Bravo3

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#395895 - 04/09/08 03:44 PM Re: What temperature do you run? [Re: T-Squared]
deepv Offline
Safety Officer
Admiral

Registered: 03/17/04
Posts: 6678
Loc: SoCal
The first sample was pulled after running the engine on the muffs until it got to 170 each time and through the drain hose out the garboard drain hole with the first quart or so going into the pan.

The second was done at a local Mercruiser mechanic's shop using a suction pump through the fill tube after they ran it on the muffs to get it up to temperature.
_________________________
72% of fatal boat accidents are caused by
boaters that haven't taken a safe boating course.

2001 Sea Ray Sundeck 190
5.0 EFI Alpha I,Generation 2
2002 4x4 LB Lariat CC F250, 7.3PSD


Top
#396232 - 04/10/08 07:05 PM Re: What temperature do you run? [Re: deepv]
T-Squared Offline
Vice Admiral

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 367
Loc: Northwest Indiana
Deep, to me, the way the samples were taken doesn't seem like it should have changed the dilution numbers any.

Some things off the top of my head that you can check/do that could affect fuel dilution:

Clean flame arrestor
Replace plugs, cap, rotor
Clean pcv valve
Replace fuel filter
Run a heavy dose of cleaner thru the fuel system/ ensure good injector pattern
Check compression and leakdown
Check ignition timing
Check resistances/ functions of the various senders for the ECM either manually or let a dealer tech use the Merc scan tool...especially the temp sender
_________________________
"Toy Story"
Y2K Crownline 266BR
454Mag Bravo3

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#396341 - 04/11/08 09:23 AM Re: What temperature do you run? [Re: T-Squared]
deepv Offline
Safety Officer
Admiral

Registered: 03/17/04
Posts: 6678
Loc: SoCal
Not Done:

Clean flame arrestor (Recommended method?)
Check compression and leakdown (This one can wait, I think as engine runs fine)
Check resistances/ functions of the various senders for the ECM either manually or let a dealer tech use the Merc scan tool...especially the temp sender (Where can I buy my own)

Done:
Replace plugs, cap, rotor
Replace fuel filter
Clean pcv valve
Check ignition timing
Run a heavy dose of cleaner thru the fuel system/ ensure good injector pattern (Although it hasn't been run through the system yet)
_________________________
72% of fatal boat accidents are caused by
boaters that haven't taken a safe boating course.

2001 Sea Ray Sundeck 190
5.0 EFI Alpha I,Generation 2
2002 4x4 LB Lariat CC F250, 7.3PSD


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