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#360310 - 11/23/07 09:57 AM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: D-Rod]  
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Lou C Offline
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NOTE TO GM.....if you want to stay in business....FOCUS on CARS, the trucks are doing fine, put your money in to better small cars, where they have not been competitive with the Asian makes for close to 20 years...
Lose the cheap plastic and mediocre drive trains while they are at it....
When was the last time anyone saw a GM car they actually lusted after and wanted to spend money on???
The only US product that for me falls into that category is the Chrysler 300.
I saw the coming Pontiac G 8 with the Corvette engine and that's encouraging, also the new Malibu looks good to, maybe they are awakening from their long sleep at last, at the 11th hour!


88 Four Winns 200 Horizon 4.3 OMC
98 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 Six Selectrac
07 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 HEMI Quadradrive II
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#360435 - 11/24/07 07:35 PM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: Lou C]  
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trooplewis Offline
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Lou C;

That note to GM (applies to Ford and Chrysler as well) is about a decade too late.

They were making so much money in the SUV and truck market that they gave the lower-profit car market to the Japanese and German mfg's. Now they want it back and it is tooooo late, as the public has migrated to foreign cars and decided that they like them better.

Shame on them in the 1990's, and now they are paying for it.

#360463 - 11/24/07 11:49 PM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: trooplewis]  
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Lou C Offline
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Sad but true, I can remember when #s 1, 2, and 3 in sales were the Chevrolet Impala, Ford LTD/Galaxie, and Olds Cutlass. GM sold so many cars and had 51% of the market, and in 71 the Feds were talking about breaking them up because they were a 'monopoly'. Can you imagine that!


88 Four Winns 200 Horizon 4.3 OMC
98 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 Six Selectrac
07 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 HEMI Quadradrive II
#360543 - 11/25/07 03:10 PM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: Lou C]  
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SF Offline
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SF  Offline
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Sate of Illness
Lets look at the top two selling "cars" of 2006.

1. Ford F-Series (796,039)
2. Chevrolet Silverado (636,069) GMC version missing?
3. Toyota Camry (448,445)
4. Dodge Ram (364,177)
5. Honda Accord (354,441)
So of the top 5 selling "cars" three are pick up trucks.

Number of people in the U.S who will own an RV by 2010, 8 million. Lots of trailers to pull!!!

Just maybe GM knows that the Ford Ex going out of production left a hole in the market that needs to be filled.

Once I am trade even on my 2006 Ford Expolerer with the first gear downshift issue, I will take a long look at the diesel Sub.


05 2500 HD Duramax/Alli
2004 Formula 280 SS
2004 Sea Doo GTX Limited
#360617 - 11/25/07 11:48 PM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: SF]  
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Jeff_in_NC Offline
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One thing I have noticed is that the 3/4 ton Suburban (or Yukon XL in GMC trim) is used in the commercial fleet market. I have seem them used by DOT crews and have long been a favorite among survey crews around here. I never noticed if the Ford Excursion made in roads in that market. If the commercial market is interested in a diesel 'burb may help this become a reality.


2006 Bryant 236
#360619 - 11/26/07 12:34 AM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: Jeff_in_NC]  
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HotByte Offline
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Ford isn't sitting idly by...Here's concept of their new SUV

Ford Excavation

Jeff_in_NC makes a good point...just as the Ford SD seemed to catch on around here as the commercial truck of choice, Suburbans have always seemed to be the big commercial SUV. I can remember as a kid in the 70's a friend's dad that worked for DOT drove a Burb.


2009 Tidewater 1900 Bay Max pulled by
1998 Dodge Durango SLT and 2006 Gulfstream Yellowstone 32' class C Motorhome
#360688 - 11/26/07 01:57 PM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: HotByte]  
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kenhdog Offline
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Question from a Ford ignorant man:

Isn't the Ford Expedition EL the replacement for the discontinued Excursion, and the Ford's answer in class to the 'Burb?

I haven't seen a lot of them, maybe new for 2007, but It does seem like Burb's out number (Excursions/Expedition EL) by a sizeable ratio, at least by my real life 'observation'.

I wondered about that one year, and I recall the Excursion didn't have as much power (spec wise) as the Suburban. (Gas engine, IIRC )

I wouldn't think that would be enough to kill its market share

I wonder what it was/is...



2002 Rinker 212 Captiva
Merc 5.7 EFI Alpha
Trail-Rite Trailer
1999 GMC 'Burb
#360698 - 11/26/07 02:23 PM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: kenhdog]  
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D-Rod Offline
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The Expy had 250hp until the 2005 models, where it received the 3-valve, 300hp 5.4L engine. The Burbs/Tahoes had 275-320hp from the year 2000 on. The Burbs/Tahoes are better accelerators (even after the engine boost) because of the engine designs. The Burb is bigger than the Expy as well.

I also think there is a brand loyalty issue.

It will be interesting to see GM's profit (lol, if it exists) from the investment in a couple of years.

There are a lot of rumors floating around. Some say the engine is light enough to drop in any place the 6.0 can fit. I think they're wrong. I think it requires stiffening of the frame and new drivetrain components, which is exampled in this concept. To me, that is what makes it financially unfeasible.

I think there are two separate issues:

A) Increase the economy of the 1/2 Tahoe/Burb.

B) Create a more capable vehicle.

I think issue B is addressed by this concept. It looks like they're basically building a new 3/4 ton vehicle to replace the current one with more capacity. An option is diesel power instead of a 6.0 gas.

I don't think the object of the vehicle is to increase economy. If GM does want to use the diesel for economy, then I think you would have seen a different approach.

As previously mentioned, I don't think diesel is a good approach. Fuel price is too high because demand is too high. Let's build MORE diesel vehicles and FURTHER increase this demand. Nope. Just doesn't make sense to use it solely for economy, hence why I don't think economy is the motivation behind the vehicle.

D

Last edited by D-Rod; 11/26/07 02:25 PM.

-YOLO
#360699 - 11/26/07 02:41 PM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: D-Rod]  
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WaterMutt Offline
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The standard Expedition is larger than the Tahoe.

The Expedition EL is a bit bigger than the Suburban I believe, but haven't checked. From looking at them side by each, the Expy looks bigger. One nice thing about the BlueOval over the Bowtie, is the third row seat. The Expy with the dropped floor deck seems to have more room and better sitting ergonomics. I noticed this in my Boss's Denali XL when I had to sit in the back for a 2.5 hour trip, not comfy.

As for powerplants, I prefer the Chevy, even if it is a bit revvy. There is a huge difference between the two as far as geometries and design go. The Ford is a long stroke engine which is obvious when you compare torque numbers, while the Chevy has a short throw hence the ability for higher revs.

What does this have to do with diesels? I like diesels, expecially when they smell like french fries.


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#384389 - 03/01/08 11:02 PM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: WaterMutt]  
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Jeff_in_NC Offline
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2006 Bryant 236
#384392 - 03/01/08 11:24 PM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: Jeff_in_NC]  
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AnchorYanker Offline
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They should call it the Duramin.

Or, if it was part of a hybrid package, the Duracell.

Too obvious, I know..... \:roll


Stevie T, Yup That's Me
#384435 - 03/02/08 08:50 AM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: Jeff_in_NC]  
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2006 226 Offline
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2006 226  Offline
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The Republic of Texas
Make a Z71 2500 6.6L Duramax Suburban loaded with every possible creature comfort available, and my 3/4 ton Ford pick-up will be gone in mere minutes...


"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of The Republic." - Benjamin Franklin

2006 Cobalt 226
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#384450 - 03/02/08 09:44 AM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: 2006 226]  
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T-Squared Offline
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Along those same lines, I bet Dodge missed some sales opportunities by not offering a big 4 door suvy. They could have resurrected the Ramcharger name, making it the same wheelbase as the 'Burb or Expy El, and gave it the "real" diesel. Offer a heavy duty towing option with nice heavy springs for the big boat and trailer guys and I'll bet they'd have sold a bunch...


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#384512 - 03/02/08 01:34 PM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: T-Squared]  
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D-Rod Offline
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I still don't think a market exists for a fullsize diesel 3/4 ton large SUV. Ford barely sold enough Excursions to make it worthwhile DURING the SUV craze. Add competition and those numbers fall down further.


-YOLO
#384527 - 03/02/08 02:15 PM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: D-Rod]  
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kenhdog Offline
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Yeah, I wonder if the market is there.

I'd be willing to bet that 1/3 or more of thier (GMC/Chev Suburban) market are urban soccer moms (at least around here) that could care less about Diesel or towing capability or whatever 'problem' they're trying to solve.

Our old faithful 5.7L TBI does the (5K # towing) job, when we ask of it.


2002 Rinker 212 Captiva
Merc 5.7 EFI Alpha
Trail-Rite Trailer
1999 GMC 'Burb
#384539 - 03/02/08 03:00 PM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: kenhdog]  
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D-Rod Offline
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Ken: I'm pretty sure the 1996-1999's are port injected (MPI)....


-YOLO
#384542 - 03/02/08 03:16 PM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: D-Rod]  
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Silverbullet Offline
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Boise, ID
 Originally Posted By: D-Rod
I still don't think a market exists for a fullsize diesel 3/4 ton large SUV. Ford barely sold enough Excursions to make it worthwhile DURING the SUV craze. Add competition and those numbers fall down further.


I don't know if there would be a maket, but look how many of the 2500 and 3500 diesels are sold to people that never hitch anything up to them.


James
2002 Cobalt 226 VP 8.1GIDP
2007 Chevy 2500HD Crew Cab Duramax
1988 Suburban 3/4 Ton
2000 Subaru Forester


#384547 - 03/02/08 03:25 PM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: D-Rod]  
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2006 226 Offline
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The Republic of Texas
 Originally Posted By: D-Rod
I still don't think a market exists for a fullsize diesel 3/4 ton large SUV. Ford barely sold enough Excursions to make it worthwhile DURING the SUV craze. Add competition and those numbers fall down further.


That vehicle was ugly as home-made sin. The gas versions did not even sell well. Contrast that with Suburban sales here in The Republic. As we all know, it is the preferred vehicle for transit here. Put a 6.6L in it, and watch them fly off of the lots. The last time a Sub had a diesel, it was that nasty Detroit piece. The Duramax would be positively lovely. I got rid of a vehicle last year that I liked in all other aspects, a 2003 Z71 Suburban. Why? Despite a stated 7,200 lb. tow rating, the 5.3L gasser could not handle a motorcycle trailer, much less my boat in the Hill Country... If it had the Duramax, I'd have driven it until the proverbial wheels had fallen off.

Last edited by 2006 226; 03/02/08 05:48 PM.

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of The Republic." - Benjamin Franklin

2006 Cobalt 226
5.7L GXI DP

#384553 - 03/02/08 04:15 PM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: 2006 226]  
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Jeff_in_NC Offline
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 Originally Posted By: 2006 226
Make a Z71 2500 6.6L Duramax Suburban loaded with every possible creature comfort available, and my 3/4 ton Ford pick-up will be gone in mere minutes...


The same goes for my '04 3/4 ton 'burb with the 6.0


2006 Bryant 236
#384554 - 03/02/08 04:22 PM Re: Duramax-powered Suburban -NEW- with Pics [Re: kenhdog]  
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Jeff_in_NC Offline
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 Originally Posted By: kenhdog
Yeah, I wonder if the market is there.

I'd be willing to bet that 1/3 or more of thier (GMC/Chev Suburban) market are urban soccer moms (at least around here) that could care less about Diesel or towing capability or whatever 'problem' they're trying to solve.


Agreed. My wife will not put gas in our 'burb. I'm certain she would never even think about pumping a drop of diesel. It it is the dads married to the soccer moms that have ideas of "one day" having an RV, boat, motorcycles, atvs, etc that needs a big tow vehicle that will want them.


2006 Bryant 236
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