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#345852 - 09/18/07 05:04 PM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: Rocnat4]  
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deepv Offline
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All right, which one of you does this "All the time"?


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#345854 - 09/18/07 05:07 PM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: Rocnat4]  
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WA's DUI statutes used to have 3 levels of presumption regarding driving under the influence...(not sure if these numbers are still accurate)

.00-.05 you are presumed to NOT be under the influence
.05-.079 no presumption is made either way
.08-up you are presumed to be driving under the influence

Note that at all three levels it is a presumption that still must be corroborated with other evidence which can include the arresting officer's observations, the presence of drugs or drug paraphernalia, etc.

One of the worst DUI drivers I ever saw was a lady in her 50's who normally did not drink who went with her boyfriend to celebrate his birthday. He was waaaay too drunk to drive when they left the bar to go to a motel so she drove. Bad judgement on her part. I don't recall her BAC but it was below the legal limit and near the bottom of the "no presumption" range. She probably had 2 drinks all evening but was VERY drunk from those two drinks.

The highest BAC I ever recorded on one of my DUI Customers was about a .44. At that point the person should have been dead. He was a long time drunk and actually was doing fairly well considering the amount of booze in his body.

Derek, to answer your question...alcohol affects people differently and part of the effect comes from their exposure to intoxicants. A frequent drinker will generally be able to tolerate more intoxicants and "appear" to not be under the influence. Legally, their BAC might still be well over the legal limit but they don't appear to be drunk. What causes many people to drive while intoxicated is that booze affects their judgement. After a couple of drinks, a person who normally would NEVER think of driving while drunk loses the ability to clearly process thoughts and make good judgements. They think they will be OK "just this one time" and they continue to drink. Then they get in the car and drive home from the party/bar/etc. More often than not they make it home safely. That makes it easier to do the next time, ("Hey, I did OK last weekend driving home and I was drunker then than I am now") and the next, etc.

They may continue to drive drunk for years before they get caught by the cops....or kill someone.


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#345862 - 09/18/07 05:19 PM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: deepv]  
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 Originally Posted By: deepv
All right, which one of you does this "All the time"?


I don't know but I admire their honesty.


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#345870 - 09/18/07 05:48 PM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: D-Rod]  
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 Originally Posted By: D-Rod
To me, this is the difficult question:

"Why do people find it acceptable to drive under the influence, disregarding the amount of substance consumed"

Under the influence is under the influence, whether you're at .8 or 1.2, right?

your point is well taken, but i would then also wonder what kind of influence cell phone usage has in your community to people behind the wheel

you are a techno person and i would guess that you have been driven around before by someone with an iPod or c-phone in their hand ...
... would you prefer to be in a car driven by someone having an annimated phone call on a c-phone OR that same 185 pound person with 2 beers in his belly and no cell phone ?

( in CA next year you can't do either )


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#345872 - 09/18/07 05:57 PM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: FatDog]  
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There are a lot of people that are dangerous without any alcohol in their system. In most cases, drunk drivers are caught because they are driving too cautiously. The cops know that if you are doing 35 in a 45 at the wee hours, you are probably plastered. I rarely drink any more, but there are other substances that under the right circumstances, can leave you with the reactions of a drinker. And most of them are legal and unregulated.


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#345879 - 09/18/07 06:19 PM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: FatDog]  
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D-Rod Offline
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 Originally Posted By: FatDog
[quote=D-Rod]
... would you prefer to be in a car driven by someone having an annimated phone call on a c-phone OR that same 185 pound person with 2 beers in his belly and no cell phone ?

( in CA next year you can't do either )


Good point. I won't dispute the cell-phone argument. It's not a safe practice to drive and text.

However, I would *much* rather take my chances with a texter' than someone who has been drinking, never mind the amount. At least that person has *FULL SPEED* reflex and decision making capabilities, not impaired. I tend to think I stand a better change with ignorance than I do inability. That is just my perception.

Kansas has really pushed advertising against driving under the influence. At least several times a day you hear or see an advertisement warning against it. Their catch-phrase is "Over the limit - Under Arrest".

The University has a unique approach. They operate something called Safe-Bus, which is a big 40ft bus that circle's the popular areas Friday and Saturday night. The catch is, it is free-of-charge and no-questions asked. They is also a program called Safe-Ride. Safe-Ride is the same philosophy as Safe-Bus, except you call them and they will come get you from ANYWHERE in the Lawrence area and take you back to your housing, no questions asked and free of charge. Obviously this is a very liberal approach, but it DOES seem to work. Between the DUI advertising and the other safe-options, I hear of very little driving under the influence. Infact, the student population here is 3x the size of my old home town. I hear maybe 10% of DUI stories. I just find that interesting and thought I would pass it along.

Back on track.

An analogy:

Would you be upset if you were riding on a Boeing 737 piloted by two pilots under the influence? Of course you would be upset.

My question is: how is you driving under the influence (this means just ONE drink, regardless of the law) any different than the pilot of a 150-person airplane? How is it "acceptable" to drive under the influence (even if just a little bit) alone, but not acceptable with your wife/family in the vehicle. What changed? The fact that your loved ones may not be killed in the event of an accident even though your actions may kill an innocent person or MORE?

I think those are some serious questions that people should consider.

I'm not arguing the fact the a 200lbs man with 1 beer is safer than a 150lbs guy shi*-faced. That's a given. My question is, and the wording of the law backs me, is that is *acceptable* to let the 200lbs guy drive?

Whether you're slightly under the influence, or plastered, you're still under the influence of a foreign substance, even if its just to a small degree. Am I wrong in saying that your reactions and instincts are off a little? Wasn't that the goal of drinking in the first place?

But yes, props to those who are being honest!

I'm not saying that there are not other dangerous unregulated problems. I'm simply sticking to the topic of the thread.




-YOLO
#345885 - 09/18/07 06:40 PM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: D-Rod]  
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That English Guy Offline
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 Originally Posted By: D-Rod


Good point. I won't dispute the cell-phone argument. It's not a safe practice to drive and text.

However, I would *much* rather take my chances with a texter' than someone who has been drinking, never mind the amount.




Personally I'd rather be in the car with someone who had drunk 1-2 beers and is watching the road than a texter.


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#345895 - 09/18/07 06:59 PM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: That English Guy]  
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How 'bout being in that car with someone who's watching the game on the in-dash satelite TV in stead of the road.


72% of fatal boat accidents are caused by
boaters that haven't taken a safe boating course.

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#345898 - 09/18/07 07:02 PM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: deepv]  
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Just like this thread is about driving while under the influence of alcohol?


-YOLO
#345900 - 09/18/07 07:08 PM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: That English Guy]  
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I'm like a few of the others, who did it when we younger. Imagine this if you can it's July 3rd. 1983 and there are 5 teens in a car with a case of bud about 11:00 pm and a back road.
We all walked away but to this day my brother and younger cusin still have a limp, and I have a scar that will always be there. So ever since that night I will never have more the one and drive.


Last edited by toolinarnd; 09/18/07 07:12 PM.

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#345930 - 09/18/07 08:53 PM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: toolinarnd]  
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Here's a chart I found, fairly specific as to TIME. According to this, If I have 3 drinks in one hour I would be under the .04 "impaired" threshold, and could MAINTAIN that level by only drinking one drink per hour thereafter. For what it's worth, I DO drink and drive the boat...but I'm lucky to get past the first drink at ANY time...
========================

Procedure:
This chart represents the number of drinks it would take to bring your blood alcohol concentration to a particular level in one hour.

1. Locate the line that corresponds to your body weight.

2. From left to right, each square represents one drink.

3. The first dark line to the right indicates an alcohol concentration of .04 (indicating impairment).

4. The second dark line to the right indicates an alcohol concentration of .10 (legal intoxication in most states).

To calculate concentration during a longer period of time:

1. Add the total amount of drinks consumed.

2. From that total, subtract 1 drink for each hour of drinking. In other words, your body will burn off 1 drink per hour.




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#345934 - 09/18/07 09:22 PM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
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Having worked for a company that does drug and alcohol testing, some interestin facts about drinking and impairment:

Percentage of alcohol in one average drink:
12 oz. beer [5 % alcohol]
5 oz. wine [12% alcohol]
1 1/2 oz. hard liquor [80 proof 40 % alcohol]
All of the above contain about the same amount of alcohol.

Absorption of alcohol in the human body:
About 25% of what is drunk is absorbed in the stomach. The other 75% passes on to the upper intestine where it is absorbed into the bloodstream.
Food will slow down absorption.
Carbonated beverages will speed absorption.
Affects every cell and every organ.

Stages of alcohol intoxication:
Happy - reduced inhibitions.
Excited - judgment impaired, reactions slowed.
Confused - exaggerated fear, anger, slowed speech.
Stupor - unable to stand or walk, barely conscious.
Coma - completely unconscious, may die from respiratory paralysis.

Metabolism of alcohol in human body:
The liver metabolizes over 90% of the alcohol into carbon dioxide and water.
The remaining non-metabolized alcohol is excreted unchanged through the lungs and kidneys.
In just 30 minutes, all of the alcohol from one drink is in the bloodstream.
The body eliminates alcohol at the rate of one drink per hour.

The interestin part that the charts don't tell you is that as more alcohol is consumed, the rate of elimentation slows (kind of a copounding effect). The other aspect is the body's tolerance for alcohol which varies significantly from person to person and can swing widely within the same person depending on a whole lot of factors.

Personally, there are times when I can feel the effects of 1 drink fairly quickly and other times when it may take several. As my son gets his license in several months, my spouse and I have to be very careful what they see and how it is percieved (not that we drink much anyway).


No boat at this time
#345938 - 09/18/07 09:41 PM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: justforfun]  
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Thanks for the statistics, justforfun.


-YOLO
#345942 - 09/18/07 10:00 PM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: Frantically Relaxing]  
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2 weeks in the hospital of which one of the weeks I have no memory of that consisted of stroke and heart attack all caused by a severe acute attack of pancreatitis which, the doctor's say, was caused by an "alcohol sensitive" pancreas, keeps me from ever wanting anything with alcohol again. That was 6 months ago to which I am still recovering to which the doctor's are draining pseudocysts that have formed.

I do not wish an attack of pancreatitis on anyone. According to the internet, it is the number one pain giver ahead of child birth and kidney stones. Who would have thought? Are you next?


Alcohol causes pancreatitis. I almost died.

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#345998 - 09/19/07 12:08 AM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: Squid]  
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In my drinking days, I noticed that I had a high tolerance for alcohol. When the drinks flowed cheaply, I could down a lot without any ill effects. I also noted that when the price of partying was steep, it took a lot less to get a buzz. It was then I realized that drink was not necessary. A person can stand around with a soda and still act like a fool. Also being a cheapskate, I found that the designated driver would often get free drinks. It was great when I was at the hotel's sports bar and get free drinks and eats because I was the DD. Even better when we were all staying at the hotel. I gave up smoking the same way. Figured out how much I was spending and it cured me.


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#346012 - 09/19/07 05:50 AM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: D-Rod]  
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 Quote:
However, I would *much* rather take my chances with a texter' than someone who has been drinking, never mind the amount. At least that person has *FULL SPEED* reflex and decision making capabilities, not impaired. I tend to think I stand a better change with ignorance than I do inability.



Does someone who is trying to text and not paying attention to the road have *FULL SPEED* reflexes or decision making capabilities? Not in my opinion.

I would also group a texter into the ignorant category.


Joe
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#346030 - 09/19/07 08:48 AM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: That English Guy]  
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 Originally Posted By: That English Guy
 Originally Posted By: D-Rod


Good point. I won't dispute the cell-phone argument. It's not a safe practice to drive and text.

However, I would *much* rather take my chances with a texter' than someone who has been drinking, never mind the amount.




Personally I'd rather be in the car with someone who had drunk 1-2 beers and is watching the road than a texter.


+1 you need to see what is happening in order to react.


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#346082 - 09/19/07 11:56 AM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: WaterMutt]  
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+1 to the "don't put me in a car with a texter" group.

Our brain is only capable of processing so much information at one time. If the driver is focused on texting and not driving he is missing much of what is going on outside the car. Not someon I'd like to ride with.


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#346094 - 09/19/07 12:55 PM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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Since it's already been
Here's a few stories about text messaging and crashes.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=1660018
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Nov/05/ln/FP511050330.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-07-14-ny-crash_N.htm
http://www.topix.com/forum/ce/TAVJGBSJS5DFPVJNQ


I could go on and on, but there were over two million hits while googling "text messaging crash"

People are still in the denial phase on how dangerous text messaging and driving are, much as twenty years ago drinking and driving were tolerated with a slap on the wrist...... but then again it appears that in many judges courtrooms nothing has changed as many DUI offenders are still free to continue terrorizing the roads even after 10 DUI convictions.
I wonder how many people would be comfortable with their Pilot Text messaging his wife or her husband to start toward the airport to pick them up while on short final during an instrument approach down to minimums? I would contend it's less dangerous than driving down the freeway texting because the nearest airplane is 4 miles away and there is automation to help the airplane land, while on the freeway the nearest car is 3 feet away and the only automation you have is cruise control.
By the way, I would never text while flying (I've only sent two text messages in my life) nor fly with a measurable BAC. Federal Aviation Regulations prohibit us from imbibing within 8 hours of flying, and my personal limit is no more than one drink between 12 hours prior and 8 hours prior.

I too am in the court of "rather be in a car driven by someone who has had one (or even two) drinks with dinner than with someone who is text messaging."


Beer makes you feel the way
You should feel without beer.
#346214 - 09/19/07 06:47 PM Re: Drinking and driving [Re: Justification]  
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Which killed more people in the past year, drivers who were texting or drivers who were under the influence? That's a hard one. Not.

Texting and driving is dangerous. But, how the heck is texting any different then talking to passengers in the car. Text messaging is a medium of communication. Almost everyone I know that text messages as they drive do the typing without looking down at the phone. When an incoming message arrives, it only take a couple quick looks to read. How are those quick looks any different then looking through radio stations or CD's? That's the thing...its NOT that much different. And it's dang sure not any worse then talking on the phone while driving. Infact, I would venture to say it's safer than talking on the phone. Note: If you cannot fluently text without looking at the screen, then you do not fit the safe criteria .

There are distractions at every corner of the street. There are distractions within every cubic inch of the car. For this reason, accidents WILL happen.

All of these does not change the fact doing *anything* while driving is dangerous.

Personally, I take a couple extra safety precautions. I usually read text messages at red lights, or if i'm driving on a freeway, only when there is not a car next to me, or if on a two-lane highway, only when a car is not oncoming. As mentioned, sending text messages is no big deal. To me, it is the reading of the message that is the most dangerous part, even though it is no different then searching for a CD or fumbling with the radio.

Back on track:

Drinking in general is dangerous. What is the point of getting "drunk"? Why not stop after 2 or 3 or however many it takes to become tipsey?



-YOLO
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