Has anyone added an additional bilge pump to there boat? If so, did it help?

My boat sank at my dock last season during a wind storm that over-whelmed my boat with water. That led me to look into what can be done to prevent it from happening in the future. I read in a artical (link posted below) that its usually the electronics that fail and not the pump. Another interesting item was that a boat my size (22 ft center console) should have two bilge pumps. Your thoughts?

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/bilge_pumps.htm

Hi Stone

With a name like that, you're bound to sink again.
Sorry, can't resist stupid jokes sometimes.

There was a thread a while back about adding a 2nd bilge pump to a bow rider. I didn't read the entire thread, so don't know if it has any helpful info for you, but it might.

HERES THE LINK

We are going to leave our boat on a mooring in Lake Tahoe this summer. Mostly 1 nighters but maybe for up to a week.

I thought about adding a second auto-bilge. I don't know if it's really necessary. Batteries and wiring would be a shared component, so I guess the pump would have to burn out for it to be necessary. I don't know if you can just put a Y-connector in the hose without causing a flow problem.

Stone,

what size and type boat was it? Did the water come in from the stern over the transom? Was the bilge pump working?

Rbarbot2,

With a 256 I can't see you having any problems, especially if you are on a mooring ball where the boat can move to be bow into the wind. Lots of boats left out there all summer and though the water can get rough in the afternoon, generally not enough to cause problems.

Hockey Family lol @ sink like a Stone. I should have known that one was coming! Thanks for the link also. It was helpful.

Silverbullet, its a 22 foot center console. Its made by Triton, they have since discontinued the model. It has a cut out in the transom for the motor. Water came thru there and also over the stern. I have a 30 foot dock, the boat is tied to the 4 mooring poles. Water was hitting my bulkhead and splasing right back into the boat. I am in the last stages of getting a permit for a longer pier (100 feet) and a boat lift. One lesson I learned from this is to avoid buying a boat with that type of transom. The bilge pump was hot wired.

A properly secured and supported mooring cover might help prevent water splashing in. The cover may be a better strategy than trying to pump water out faster than it can splash in.

Forgot to put the drain plug in the other day - only 2nd time in 14 years! Bilge kicked in but couldn't keep up. Got me thinking - Would it be unreasonable to expect the bilge pump to be able to keep up with a hole the size of the drain plug? I got the wimpy stock bilge pump that came with the boat installed - never really needed it to run heavy duty (other than rain, etc.). Any opinions?

turn the boat around so motor end is to land.
then a hole the size of a drain plug must be handled with bilge pumps (I think) so if not then you nee either a bigger pump or two.
h

If you add a second bilge pump, it should have everything separate, separate pump, switch, fuse, hose, and thru-hull, and ideally battery - if you have two batteries on board.

Also the hose usually gets routed in such a way as to put in a "p" trap of sorts so that water cannot run into the bilge from the thru-hull. This is important, even if the thru hull is above the waterline, because if the boat is sinking, it might no longer be.

A wye will not only interfere with the water flow, but it will also make it harder to have a good "P" trap.

If you add a second pump, it should be on the other end of the boat. So if your current pump is in the stern, put the other one in the bow.

Also you might want to increase the size of the pump. Seein' that you have been reading Pascoe, he I think mentions some boats do not have a sufficient sized pump.

That Pascoe read is an eye opener. My 20' open bow comes standard with a very nice 500 GPH Rule bilge pump. Pascoe cut it to shreds. He said 16 - 20 footers need 2500 GPH! At first blush, my thinking was that Four Winns knows what they're doing, but then I gave it some thought. I've seen the water stream that 500 GPH pump puts out the thru hull. Turning it around, I think I could use it to pump water into the boat for an hour or so and not be in danger of harming any engine components. If I pull the drain plug while the boats in the water, I think I'd be in trouble in 10 minutes or less. From this I'm guessing that Pascoe's numbers could be conservative for my boat. I never travel very far from shore (smallish lakes), even so I'd like to get back to shore with my boat. Looks like another project to add to the rapidly growing list.

Bilge pumps are rated at 0' total dynamic head, which is completely unrealistic. Given these pumps are open impeller type the flow rate falls quickly in relation to tdh. Also, these pumps are rated in GPH, gallons per hour. A 2500 GPH pump will move about 40 gallons in a minute, at 0' tdh. 40 gpm should have around a 1.25 to 1.5" line. How many bilge hoses do you see bigger than 3/4 or maybe an inch? This smaller line now creates even more tdh on the pump. Add up the resistance due to piping, lift from the bilge to the exit (even higher if you use Al's reverse P trap, which you should) and you knock off the available flow quickly. A Rule 2000GPH pump at 10' tdh (an easy number to get up to if you undersize your lines) falls to a 1100 GPH pump. Take a 5 gallon bucket and put a garden hose in your bilge, then time how long it takes your pump to fill the bucket once it comes on. Compare that with your rating. It will give you an idea of what your pump can do.

Mr. watermutt is right on. As far as hooking the 2 discharge lines together, I've never seen a bilge pump with a check valve, and even if it had one, it would eventually get stuck open or closed anyway. If the discharges are tied together without check valves, when only one pump runs, some of the discharge will be pushed backwards through the other pump and into the boat. Somewhat counter productive.

Wouldn't two discharges into one thru hull work (without check valves) provided each line has a riser loop a good amount above the thru hull coupled with a Y going into a 30 degree fitting angled downwards to the thru hull? Just exploring the concept - I'd drill out the existing 3/4 thru hull, replace it with a 1 1/8, and add a second 1 1/8 thru hull for the second (bigger) pump. Having said that, I'm a bit undecided on whether to go chrome plated or plastic for the thru hulls.

If you have one blige pump in the front, and one in the rear, seems you would be using a lot of hose. I think you would want as short a hose as possible.

That probably would work. Just remember that any kind of restriction on the down stream side (like the kid on the boat tied up next to you that sticks his hot dog in that neat round hole) of the tie in will cause a problem. Of course, restriction in that line is a bad thing, regardless of how many pumps you have.

I have never seen this done by a boatbuilder, and as cheap as they sometimes are, I am sure they would do it if they could. Therefore, I bet there is either a USCG regulation or ABYC standard not recommending this. You should thoroughly investigate all of the safety aspects before attempting this.

For instance, what if one bilge pump fails, are you assured the other pump will pump water overboard, recirculate water back into the bilge via the failed pump, or a combination of the two?

When boat builders get cheap, they only do one pump.

I remember a guy that had one of those self contained battery powered units that he would stick in his bilge if he were going to be away from the boat for more than a few days. His comment on it was you can't always trust your main power source. He just ran a hose over the side. I don't know if it ever worked.

Whew! I've been selling pumping equipment for the last 9 years, I was hoping I got it right.

Found the SS ones, didn't see them at first. :DUH:

On the Y to the thru hull, I was just curious as Pascoe talked about it being ok. Clearly a second thru hull equal to the recommended hose size of the second pump is the way to go.

Found this thread this morning while looking for something else.

This past week-end when we arrived at our marina our daughter and her family were alredy there and had the boat ready to go. My son-in-law mentioned that the bilge had a lot of water in it. We checked it and the water was high but below the level for the automatic to kick on. Hit the manual switch and it was dead. Worked with the switch and it did eventualy work. Cleared as much water as it could. Had not had this problem previously but attribute it to a new not the best fitting bow and cockpit cover, that's another story.

So yesturday I when back to the marina armed with parts. Installed a second bilge pump and placed it further back in the bilge as the original pump is about 3 foot forward of the transom and about an inch higher that the area further back. This allowed for more water to remain after pumping. This was just a quick install as I did not want to bother with a new/second thru hull right now. I just routed the hose through a gap in the sun pad and over the side. The cover holds the hose in place. For now it's wire for auto only. Will clean all of this up at the end of the season. The over side hose looks like he!! but it works for now.

Had never really thought about a second bilge pump before this last week-end but I think it is a good idea.

You're way ahead of me. I got the parts, and have mapped everything out, but man is it going to be a pain of a project. On my boat the existing Rule 500 is absolutely centered beneath the engine in the bilge. Had to use a digital camera to get a good look at it. Then the existing 3/4" hose needs to be upgraded to 1 1/8", and FW provided access via a 12" x 14" accessway, guess they did not have my bulk in mind when they did so. Next I find out that they used 3M 5200 to seal the existing 3/4" thru hull. Fun, fun.

I'm curious Jim, what are you planning on using to increase the size of that hole?

You're asking about the hole for the thru hull, right? I'm going to use a hole saw - I know, hard to use a 1 1/2" hole saw when there's already a 7/8" hole there. I'm planning on making a wooden 'cork', then pre-drilling and stuffing it into the 3/4" hole from the inside so the hole saw guide drill bit can 'grab into' something as I drill the larger hole in the hull from the outside.

I've already got a couple 1 1/8 Attwood SS thru hulls ordered up. At this point, I'm just short some wire, a bunch of SS worm clamps, and a tool savvy midget.

Maybe take a hole saw that fits the existing hole, cut a hole in a board with that, and use the slug as your cork?

Not a bad idea, I was thinking of setting up the lathe, but maybe going with a hole saw one or two sizes up, and then tapering the plug into a cork with a sander might do it. Hmmm...

Might have to experiment a little to figure out which is better, cork shoved in from the inside, or from the outside.

FYI - I don't need a plug. Take a look at the Factory 3/4" thru hull.



Kind of deceiving, that beautiful 316 SS cover has an appeture with an ID of over 1 1/8", but the hose barb at the other end has an OD of 3/4". My Attwood solid 316 SS thru hull will fit in the same hole in the hull, and in comparison appears to have a smaller (1") ID, but that ID stays constant all the way through the fitting. Crazy stock fitting, unlike FW, guess I'm going for function, not form.

Finally got around to replacing the stock pump. Here's what it was:


With the height difference between the pump and the top of the loop near the thru hull in addition to the restriction at the thru hull, it became clear to me that this setup would have difficulty in keeping up with any but the smallest of leaks. No way would it keep up with a missing drain plug, for example, and perhaps not even an on water impeller change.

The Rule website showed that the stock float switch is compatible with the 1500, so all I needed to do was replace the pump, the hose, and the thru hull using 1 1/8" tubing and fittings. Access to the pump required that I remove the Sunsport seating rear bench. Even then access to the pump, the hose, and the thru hull was an exercise in contortion.

I replaced the stock SS capped plastic thru hull fitting with a solid SS Attwood 1 1/8" thru hull, cementing it with 3M 4200, as FW did at the factory.



Ok, so the picture is sideways. It's a round fitting, ok? Anyway, I do think that the stock fitting looked nicer with the rounded SS cap:



Still, I'm happy knowing that there is a wider bore with no additional flow restriction, and that the solid SS fitting will last as long as the boat.

With only a few scratches, cuts, and abrasions, and of course a few choice swear words, I was able to run and affix the bilge hose,



...and install the new pump.



The Rule 500 sure looks like a toy compared to the 1500. End result, I'm using the stock float switch, wiring harness, and manual pump switch at the helm. A change from the stock 5 amp fuse to an 8 amp fuse was required. With my current setup this pump runs off of the existing dual purpose 120AH battery.

I plan to add an Automatic Rule 1500 as back up pump, this coupled with another project to add a second battery will I believe even meet Pascoe's recommendations. One part of the Four Winns stock setup I liked was the hose they used. Much beefier than the Teleflex polyethylene hose I used. The stock hose wasn't marked, but I believe it was series 148 multipurpose reinforced vinyl hose. I'll probably swap out the poly hose I used when I do the second pump.