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#295128 - 02/27/07 02:34 PM Saltwater Bowrider  
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DaleG Offline
Admiral
DaleG  Offline
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West Palm Beach FL
Do you think there is a market for a "Saltwater Bowrider"??
Something like my 240Horizon -- or Seabuddy's --"soon to be sold" 268 Monterrey, but properly equipped for coastal salt water use.

with things like --
1---two good bilge pumps (a recent thread)
2--good size cleats
3--a self bailing cockpit with proper scuppers
4---no carpet in lockers --
5--decent freeboard stem and stern (but well thought out access options for smorkelling/diving.
6-- slightly deeper V hull
7-- other saltwattery things --

Ok Seabuddy -- you might know if one exists -- but I don't??
and there is a difference between a bowrider and a saltwater walk around console (think that is the term) which are really fishboats (no derogatory intent -- just different priorities)

any one want to buy one if it were out there?


thanks
Dale Gange - West Palm Beach
Wow - its been 40 plus years since I was an Ensign -USNA 1970

2003 Four Winns 240 Horizon
5.7Gi DP -- 280 HP
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#295132 - 02/27/07 02:40 PM Re: Saltwater Bowrider [Re: DaleG]  
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HotByte Offline
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HotByte  Offline
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Barnesville, GA
Dual Console? Maybe I/O Dual Console?


2009 Tidewater 1900 Bay Max pulled by
1998 Dodge Durango SLT and 2006 Gulfstream Yellowstone 32' class C Motorhome
#295136 - 02/27/07 02:47 PM Re: Saltwater Bowrider [Re: DaleG]  
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Dreams Float Joe Offline
Bait Cutter
Dreams Float Joe  Offline
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Amelia Island, Florida USA
 Quote:
Do you think there is a market for a "Saltwater Bowrider"??...

Thank you, no thank you. Why?...around here we refer to them as center consoles (CC). Too wet for my personal preference. (I've been off shore enough different types of vesseels to form my idea of what it is I enjoy in a saltwater boat.) My personal choice/prefence only.


DreamsFloat Joe - Volunteer Mate
M/V Ye Ole Pirate ~ Anchors Aweigh Charters, Inc.
Fernandina Beach Harbor Marina, Amelia Island, Florida 32034 USA
#295139 - 02/27/07 02:48 PM Re: Saltwater Bowrider [Re: HotByte]  
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WaterMutt Offline
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I think there are options on most boats to make them acceptable for salt water. Upgrade to Horizon series engine, freshwater systems, etc.
Mastercraft actually has a Saltwater series of boats which upgrades much of its hardware, etc.
Having boated in both, i think there is too much emphasis on requirements for salt water versus fresh. There are some obvious things you would want different, but most boats are easily usable for both.


Malibu Wakesetter 23XTI
Bryant 214 Limited (gone, but not forgotten)

"That's my boat..."
-Forest Gump

#295149 - 02/27/07 03:01 PM Re: Saltwater Bowrider [Re: DaleG]  
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seabuddy Offline
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seabuddy  Offline
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I took my boat to the Bahamas. In those same FL/waters CC boats have sunk. One did so the next day after my Bimini adventure. Sea Tow had to pull all of them out of the water until the CG got there. Often all the features in the world come down to the O/B set-up that drives a design point where the water came aboard.

These CCs have/had some or all of the features you describe as "salt water" features.

I also cruised my boat from near the top of the Keys to half way to Canada on its own bottom. Fun trip all the way. Some it with the Admiral aboard. Some solo. Some with friends. No one gave me that "fright look" that says that they thought the skipper, boat, sea state, or weather coditions were crazy.

I do not agree that my boat is not a "salt water" boat. The proof is in the pudding.

Now, if you want certain features, I think that is great. You may want to look at DCs. I suggest an I/O based on my experiences. If you really want to go offshore alot, get a flip down mounted 10 Hp kicker with its own remote gas tank with the ability to pull start it. Never fill its gas tank at the same time as the main engine's tank to keep the fuel thing as separate as possible.

#295161 - 02/27/07 03:50 PM Re: Saltwater Bowrider [Re: seabuddy]  
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DaleG Offline
Admiral
DaleG  Offline
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West Palm Beach FL
I do not think of my bowrider as "not saltware" as I use it there all the time, and also plan to cross to the Bahama's this summer ---- but I would love to have some saltwater features like a selfbailing cockpit --
and I don't know of any regular bowrider on the market with one.


thanks
Dale Gange - West Palm Beach
Wow - its been 40 plus years since I was an Ensign -USNA 1970

2003 Four Winns 240 Horizon
5.7Gi DP -- 280 HP
#295164 - 02/27/07 03:53 PM Re: Saltwater Bowrider [Re: DaleG]  
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DaleG Offline
Admiral
DaleG  Offline
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West Palm Beach FL
Also -- you would never get my wife on a "center console" --(we see them by the thousand here in West Palm Beach)
to her - and somewhat to me -- that is a fishboat -- and not a family dayboat --- I was just asking if there was a market for a "saltwater optioned" bowrider --


thanks
Dale Gange - West Palm Beach
Wow - its been 40 plus years since I was an Ensign -USNA 1970

2003 Four Winns 240 Horizon
5.7Gi DP -- 280 HP
#295169 - 02/27/07 04:05 PM Re: Saltwater Bowrider [Re: DaleG]  
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WaterMutt Offline
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Massachusetts
I had a CC for a while, nice boat, but not what I would consider family oriented. Had all of four seats, at best, and not one you could lie down on.
When you start talking salt water boats, most people think out board type boats, and most are generalized toward the fishing crowd. For bowriders, HotByte hit, dual consoles. Typically nice boats, but not all the creature comforts of a bowrider.
I ran my cruiser in salt water for years, and it had/has the same drive package as my current bowrider.
I think if I were looking into a bowrider for saltwater usage, the most important thing would be hull design. A nice deep V and high freeboard would be a must for my choosing. Then closed water cooling for an I/O and a stainless steel package for hardware if one were available. As stated earlier, most boats can be optioned into something quite sea worthy both to handle the sea and to handle the salt.


Malibu Wakesetter 23XTI
Bryant 214 Limited (gone, but not forgotten)

"That's my boat..."
-Forest Gump

#295174 - 02/27/07 04:20 PM Re: Saltwater Bowrider [Re: WaterMutt]  
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seabuddy Offline
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Why is a self bailing cockpit titled a "salt water" feature by you?

#295178 - 02/27/07 04:33 PM Re: Saltwater Bowrider [Re: seabuddy]  
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DaleG Offline
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DaleG  Offline
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West Palm Beach FL
Since in my opinion the odds of being out in larger waves is greater in salt water, and likewise the odds of catching a wave which puts green water over the bow.

-- it certainly has proven that way for me -- even when compared to when I boated on lake Ontario -- salt water waves are larger -

I think it should be a feature on all bowriders --my personal opinion -- but I am not sure I would win that argument with manufacturers who would have to make significant changes to their hull design to get the boat floor several inches above the water level.


thanks
Dale Gange - West Palm Beach
Wow - its been 40 plus years since I was an Ensign -USNA 1970

2003 Four Winns 240 Horizon
5.7Gi DP -- 280 HP
#295182 - 02/27/07 04:46 PM Re: Saltwater Bowrider [Re: DaleG]  
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seabuddy Offline
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Lets say that a 265 Chap has a self draining cockpit, does that make it a salt water boat and since the 268 Monterey does not have have a self bailing cockpit its automatic that its not a salt water boat?

How much water comes over? How fast can the boat cockpit drain? Most CC that have sunk advertised that they had self bailing cockpits. Why did they sink when water simply came aboard?

Most production boats that advertise self bailing cockpits do not self bail their water very fast. Some of those ports are tiny. Do not fall for ad claims, if someone claims that a boat does not sink, look for yourself to see if you think that you want to trust your crew to what they adv.

#295185 - 02/27/07 04:58 PM Re: Saltwater Bowrider [Re: seabuddy]  
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Bowline Offline
Boatless in LV
Bowline  Offline
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Admiral

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Las Vegas, NV
 Quote:
if someone claims that a boat does not sink, look for yourself to see if you think that you want to trust your crew to what they adv.


Or, get a Whaler...


2001 Cobalt 206, 280hp V/P DP - SOLD
2003 Toyota 4-Runner Ltd
#295186 - 02/27/07 05:02 PM Re: Saltwater Bowrider [Re: seabuddy]  
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WaterMutt Offline
Bilge Rat
WaterMutt  Offline
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Massachusetts
My cruiser and CC had self bailing cockpits. If the water came in high enough to make a difference, some water would make it into the bilge of the boat before making it out through the scuppers.
Get enough water into the boat, it will go down deep enough to push the bailing holes under water, now they allow water in as well as out, and you have a big problem.
I find self bailing cockpit good for small amounts of water and wash down purposes, especially for fishing craft. For a pleasure boat, it makes no difference to me.


Malibu Wakesetter 23XTI
Bryant 214 Limited (gone, but not forgotten)

"That's my boat..."
-Forest Gump

#295189 - 02/27/07 05:10 PM Re: Saltwater Bowrider [Re: WaterMutt]  
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seabuddy Offline
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seabuddy  Offline
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Good point, WaterMutt, about the location of the ports in relation to the waterline and as the waterline changes with weight and how they can work against keeping you afloat.

#295196 - 02/27/07 05:36 PM Re: Saltwater Bowrider [Re: seabuddy]  
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James TT Offline
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James TT  Offline
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Manchester UK
The Cobalt 263 has a raised cockpit liner when it is built for export. The deck is raised by 2 inches and 4no 2inch drain scuppers are fitted into the the rear of the cockpit that drain to overboard.
I did stuff the bow once and took a lot of water over the screen, one minute I was ankle deep in water and the next we were dry, I quite liked the idea of a self draining cockpit after that!
This enables the vessel to be rated Category B for offshore in winds up to force 8 and with significant waves of over 4m, not sure I would like to try this either!

#295202 - 02/27/07 05:57 PM Re: Saltwater Bowrider [Re: James TT]  
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LanierBoater Offline
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Georgia
“This is the first open-style coastal boat created with the level of amenities you’d expect to find in a top-of-the-line open inland family boat. The quality, reliability, safety and saltwater-tough performance define the Tournament 275 as a true Grady-White.”

–David Neese, Vice President/Engineering
Grady-White Boats

http://www.gradywhite.com/275/


-------------------------------
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#295203 - 02/27/07 05:58 PM Re: Saltwater Bowrider [Re: DaleG]  
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Lou C Offline
Admiral
Lou C  Offline
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Long Island NY
I do like the dual console design for versitility. I think most around here would go with an outboard for boats stored in the water though. At one time, Four Winns sold both their midsize bowriders and cuddys with outboard power. Self bailing is a good feature, but high freeboard is also desirable. Many of the midsize bowriders I have seen at the boat shows have both somewhat low freeboard and low helm seats, both being less desirable in areas with bigger waves.
I have seen boats that were self bailing (outboard) sink because of clogged scuppers in rainstorms.

Seabuddy, why do you recommend I/O? I like the car based engine but most here are dead set against them, except for those who want small crusiers that come only that way.


88 Four Winns 200 Horizon 4.3 OMC
98 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 Six Selectrac
07 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 HEMI Quadradrive II
#295210 - 02/27/07 06:23 PM Re: Saltwater Bowrider [Re: Lou C]  
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trooplewis Offline
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trooplewis  Offline
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San Diego
"Self bailing" on my boat means I carry a bucket and do the bailing myself...

My (very small) cockpit scupper drains into the engine bilge. ANother is in the ski locker compartment, just as small, also goes into same place. I think if I got an unusual amount of water in at once, I would be able to trim the bow up, give it a lot of gas, and some of the water would go out over the transom. Guess it depends how much weight that water added to the boat an if I could get the bow and acceleration up enough.

#295214 - 02/27/07 06:34 PM Re: Saltwater Bowrider [Re: trooplewis]  
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KCook Offline
Admiral
KCook  Offline
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Phoenix
The self-bailing feature is more common on deckboats than bowriders. Typically bowrider shoppers value deep cockpits. Which result in positioning the floor low in the hull. Which eliminates the possibility of self-bailing. On the other hand deckboats will often have their floor higher in the hull. Mostly so the rear bench seat can be over the motor, instead of down in front of it. They want the seat over the motor on deckboats to lengthen the cockpit space.

Kelly

#295235 - 02/27/07 08:30 PM Re: Saltwater Bowrider [Re: KCook]  
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DaleG Offline
Admiral
DaleG  Offline
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West Palm Beach FL
I use "self bailing" only as an indicator of heavier weather condition capability -- It was only one among a list of many things (and there are more of course) that would qualify my ideal bowrider as a "Saltwater" boat, and yes the little drain holes in my Four Winns would not qualify as good scuppers.

I found the Cobalt owners comment of taking a 263 and having it ankle deep in water and then adequately selfbail as very interesting.

I thought the new bowrider version of the Grady White was interesting when I first saw it advertised -- I have not seen it in person. I wonder if it will sell.

Of course Seabuddy, you know that selfbailing alone is not what makes one boat more "seaworthy" than another -- and even the word seaworthy has many connotations -- I think you would also agree that even your boat could be improved upon, although I have no doubt it is an excellent boat.


thanks
Dale Gange - West Palm Beach
Wow - its been 40 plus years since I was an Ensign -USNA 1970

2003 Four Winns 240 Horizon
5.7Gi DP -- 280 HP
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