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#20227 - 12/24/03 04:03 PM Negotiating tips for buying your new boat ****  
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Grand Poobah

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This is a long post, but there’s a lot of tricks in here to save $$$$$. If you're in the market for a new boat I hope this helps you out. \:D


It’s boat buying season, so here are some tips that might help you save a few bucks on the purchase of your new “loved one”……that you will later spend on fuel, upgrades, electronics, etc. These suggestions come from my 10+ years as a manager in one of Washington’s largest RV sales companies. I’ve seen just about every buying technique tried by inexperienced people and guess what...they usually end up paying too much.

First, before you ever get serious about buying a boat, it’s important that you determine your needs. And that doesn’t necessarily mean what “lights your fire” at this particular time. For example if you have young kids, be sure to plan for when they’re teenagers with long legs and bigger bodies and are bringing their friends along to go boating. Look at several sizes of boats (not necessarily brands at this point) and try to visualize the amount of room you will need for bodies, skis, tubes, towels, cooler, life jackets, etc.

I say this because when I first started looking for my last boat I was thinking of an 18’ bowrider with an 8’ beam. When I sat in one, I realized that it wouldn’t fit our needs in just a couple of years…not enough interior room or storage room. A boat is a long term purchase and it’s very expensive to have to trade it off in just a few years because it doesn’t suit your needs.

Once you have decided on a size range and type of boat (bowrider, cuddy, center console, etc.) that suits your needs, start looking online at manufacturer’s sites to see which brands you like. Most of us don’t know enough about how these things are built to be able to adequately judge construction so rely on the reputation of the brand and ask others who own them.

Once you’ve settled on a couple of brands, start looking for dealers, and they don’t necessarily have to be in your area. With the internet it’s easy to find the names of boat dealers a couple of states away who carry the brands you are looking for. Even if you don’t buy from them, they can be used as a bargaining tool when you’re negotiating with your local dealer.

If you have a trade-in, get a realistic evaluation of what it is worth. Check NADA.com and some of the other used boat sites (Yachtworld.com for example) to see what boats of your type are listed for. Keep in mind that if you see your old boat listed for around $10,000 on several internet sites, your dealer can’t give you this much for your boat. He has to make a profit when he sells it.

People with a trade-in get too hung up on what their trade is worth and what the dealer is offering them for it. Believe me when I say that the dealer is good at juggling numbers. If he offers you $8,000 for your trade and you insist on $10,000 he’ll just up the price of the new boat to compensate and you'll never see it. He's much more experienced at negotiating than you are. Also keep in mind that the dealer that takes your old boat in trade has certain costs involved with getting it ready for sale. It’s easy for a dealer to have $1,000 in actual “hard costs” to prep and repair your boat before it hits his showroom. And don’t forget that the dealer has to make a profit on your trade when he sells it. If you think you can do better than what he’s offering, keep your boat and sell it yourself. There's an idea on this below.

If you have a trade-in, the only number you should be concerned with in the negotiating process is the difference between what the new boat costs and what your trade is worth. It doesn’t matter if you deal in “retail dollars” or “wholesale dollars” the lower you can make that difference number the better off you will be. This is the only number you should be negotiating on. Don’t let a dealer try to shift your attention to interest rates or payment amounts because he’s often trying to distract you from what you’re paying.

Dealers often use a “Four Square” technique to keep you distracted and off balance. When they try this, simply tell them that the only figure you’re interested in is the difference cost. As the difference amount comes down your payment will come down.

If you have an outstanding loan on your trade you MUST know if the balance is greater than the Actual Cash Value (ACV) to the dealer. If your boat is worth $8,000 to him and you owe $11,000, you have to understand that this $3,000 deficit is not going to go away. The deficit is called “Negative Equity” and unless you pay that down in cash, it is going to be included in the loan you get when you buy the new boat…and that raises your monthly payment.

If you think you can sell your trade yourself and do better than what the dealer is offering you, strike a deal with him that allows you 30 days to either (a) sell your boat and bring him the value he was offering in cash (plus any tax difference) or; (b) bring him your boat and give it to him at his value that he offered at the time of negotiations. This lets you strike a deal today for the new boat at agreed-upon pricing and allows you the chance to sell your boat and keep any additional profit you might make on it. A dealer should be willing to do this if he wants to sell you his new boat.

If you don’t have a trade or decide you can do better selling your trade yourself you should be negotiating with the dealer on the amount of profit he needs to make above and beyond his total invoice cost.

Here it can get tricky. It’s my understanding that boat dealers are much like RV dealers. They get an invoice price from the factory at one price point. Then, as their order volume increases they get additional discounts (rebates) off that invoice price. This means that if a dealer is a large dealer and he shows you the manufacturer’s invoice you may still not be seeing what he actually paid for that boat. There’s no way that I know of to find the absolute end price that was paid.

I would start by asking the dealer what he thinks is a reasonable profit to make on the boat you’re buying. Let him know if you’ll be financing the boat through his dealership so he knows that he can afford to give up some profit on the sale because he’ll make some profit on the financing. I think it’s reasonable for a dealer to make a decent profit on his boats. He doesn’t deal in the volume that car dealers do so he has to make more on each boat. What you don’t want to have happen is to have him joke with his staff (after you’ve hitched up and driven away) about you being a “Laydown”. That means you paid waaaaaaaaaaay too much. They love Laydowns.

If you have shopped on the internet and found other dealers who carry the type of boat you want, play them against each other. Dealers hate to lose a sale to a competing brand or to a dealer who sells the same brand he does. Don’t be afraid to walk out of one dealership and go to another. If he doesn’t call you back you’ll know that you’ve hit the lowest price he’ll do to make the sale. Just don't be unreasonable in your expectations.

When you are negotiating, it’s probably a good idea to include in your purchase all the things you’ll need to have fun with your boat...dock lines, pfd’s, fenders, skis, tubes, wakeboards, etc. If you can get the dealer to “throw them in” he probably will discount those items below what you would pay if you were to just walk in and buy them. If the dealer has a long-term maintenance program for winterizing, get that too if you think you’ll be keeping the boat for more than just a few years.

There, sorry it's so long. I'd be interested in knowing if this helps anyone with their boat buying process.
GFC


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
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#20228 - 12/24/03 04:05 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Boating Magazine last month had 10 tricks to pull on your boat dealer. I'll see if I can find it..
Great post!!!


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#20229 - 12/24/03 04:35 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Great post.

But I am not so sure many businessman will readily show you his true costs, including off loading, get ready, freight in, demo costs, salesman's commission, interest paid on the unit, his pack for un-recoverable warranty, boat show expense divided by his yearly unit sales, rent, insurance, cost of sending his tech to service school, and the cost of the "thrown in" stuff.

#20230 - 12/24/03 05:19 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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While I agree with negotiating techniques to get the best deal, I don't know if I like to call them "tricks to play on your dealer." I know it's semantics, but I would much rather make sure we can get to an equitable and fair deal for both of us to maintain a good long term relationship.
Using appropriate techniques will prevent you from being a laydown (which if I'm honest with myself, I was when I bought my first new car), but will give the dealer enough of a profit to stay in business and treat you right when any service is needed.
I like to think that I used the appropriate techiques to cut such a deal on "4 da Buoys." The dealer moved a holdover off his lot, I bought a boat I could not have otherwise afforded, and I think we have a good relationship. They know who I am when I call, seem genuinely happy that I am a member of the Mastercraft family, and want to make sure I'm happy with my baby. The owner and salesman said it was cool seeing someone so excited about getting their new boat, since many of their clients have more money than they know what to do with and just replace every year or so, so it's not such a big deal to them.


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#20231 - 12/24/03 05:23 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Seabuddy, I agree. You'll never see the rebates from the mfg's that are done in the background. You can ask him how much he needs to make above the invoice amount to cover the things you mentioned and I don't think it's unreasonable to ask him to see his factory invoice.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#20232 - 12/24/03 06:18 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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GoFirstClass,

Sure wish I had had you at my side during our boat buying experience. Our dealer was professional with the conduct of their business.
Did not bad mouth the other brands we were looking at, insisted on test drive of theirs at no cost or obligation to us. When we talked trade in they asked what we had. The saleslady said it wouldn't be worth our time to tow it to the dealership, it would be a boat they would sale to a local used dealer to get it off their lot. Said we would do much better taking the time to sale it ourselves.

During cost negotiations I felt they gave us a fair price based on all the other boats, both Four Winns and other brands, that we had priced.
I'm sure looking back on it in hindsight we may have been able to get a better price if we had been more agressive, but who knows?

Long term relationsip with my dealer has been one of the best business relationships I have ever had. As a new boat buyer I get a good discount on all retail items they sale. Have purchased some major costs items there at prices that rival the internet price.

Well, gotta get, daughter wants me to review her culinary experiment. Wish me luck....

(naw, she's a good little cook.)


Former owner of a 2002 Four Winns 234 FunShip
'16 F250 4x4 Oil Burner
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#20233 - 12/24/03 06:51 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Geez Parrott, sounds like you have one heck of a dealer!!!


1995 Formula 303 SR-1, 454 MAGs
2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500
#20234 - 12/24/03 06:56 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Thanks GFC for starting an excellent thread! I'll take any help I can, for when the time comes.
 Quote:
These suggestions come from my 10+ years as a manager in one of Washimgton’s largest RV Sales companies.
Are you and Matt related? :p ;\) \:D

#20235 - 12/25/03 02:34 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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When I started talking to my dealer, he gave me a price. This was the second boat I have bought from them. We started talking, I rent a slip, have my maintainence and winterizing done by them and when I need a dock line, fuse, bulb, etc., they know I will buy from them. He lowered the boat price by $1000. I started dealing with the owner, not a salesman. Was it the best price? I am not sure, but I think it was fair. They take care of me. I feel that I got a good deal. The overall picture means more to me than the price. Sure they have to be close to what I think is equitable.
Their mechanics will fix whatever I need quickly and they do it like it is their boat, no foot/hand prints... I will not have the boat forever and will buy another. Will it be from them? Only if they earn it.
Great topic!!!


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#20236 - 12/25/03 05:36 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Lets get to the good part then. How much below list do most folks pay?

#20237 - 12/25/03 11:49 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Good question 1900, but I believe there are a BUNCH of key variables: time of year (probably the biggest one), brand, economic outlook, customer traffic, specific dealer situation, availability of factory support (such as show incentive pricing), etc, etc. As a 'rule of thumb' you can figure a few points off of list is a good price for May, June, July. October, November, December, maybe as much as 20 points (or a bit more). Other times of year the variables would overwhelm the generalizations.

In the last analysis, are you getting the boat you want, equipped as you need it, from a dealer you trust to have a productive, ongoing relationship with, at a price you think is reasonable? THAT's a good deal... \:\)


“I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of moneyed corporations which dare to challenge our government in a trial of strength, defy the laws of our country.” Thomas Jefferson "Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will seek to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of a few, and the Republic is destroyed." Abraham Lincoln
#20238 - 12/29/03 11:18 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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I share with FLB on his thoughts on pricing.

#20239 - 12/29/03 07:55 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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 Quote:
Originally posted by 1900sx:
Lets get to the good part then. How much below list do most folks pay?
1900, I don't think there is a hard and fast rule about how much below MSRP you should buy. The biggest reason is that some mfg's don't set an MSRP. When you go to a dealer's and see him advertise a "Manufacturer's Price" or "Retail Price", it could easily be a price he pulled out of the air.

It could also easily be highly inflated so he could then show a "Boat Show Discount" or "January Snow Sale" and have a huge discount. Buyers are gullible and are attraced to what they think are huge discounts. I'm not saying all dealers do that, but I would guess that it's a fairly common practice in the boating industry as it is in other industries.

That's why I suggest you negotiate UP from the dealer's invoice rather than DOWN from "Retail."

A lot depends on your skill as a negotiator. If you tell a dealer you'll only buy "if he knocks off 25%", his question is going to be "where did you get that figure from?".....and you won't have an answer better than you pulled it out of your hat (or further south, if you get my drift).

A huge factor in how happy you will be with your boat depends on how satisfied you were with the entire buying process. Getting the absolute last dollar off isn't nearly as important as...
--Did the dealer listen to what your needs were rather than just sell you the "Show Special"?
--Were you treated fairly and with respect?
--Was the boat cleaned and ready at the delivery time it was promised?
--Were all the negotiated accessories included as promised?
--Do you believe the dealer will be happy to see you come in for service?
--Will the dealer treat you well in the future if you have a problem with the boat?
I've bought things were I knew I left money on the table but was very happy with the entire process.....and that's worth more than those extra few dollars I might have spent.

Boats are toys. They're to have fun with. Your buying process should be the start of a long and happy relationship with your boat. My suggestion is don't sour the process by worrying about getting every last dollar off the price. When you get to a point where you feel happy, sign on the dotted line, don't worry about leaving some bucks on the table, and go have fun with your family. \:D \:D
GFC


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#20240 - 12/30/03 12:47 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Great Topic!!!

I have aways wondered why it has to be this way. Why dealers feel like they have to trick or unbalance a buyer. I'm fotunate enough to have bought our VIP from a local dealer and generally dealt with the owner. I never once felt like I was being mis-directed or sold something that I didn't want. Since I've been shopping around for a new deckboat, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that I'll be buying from him. He carries Glastron and Chaparral as his 2 main lines (non-fishing) so I feel that I have plenty of choices. I live within the "Nautical Mile" on I-35, just north of Lewisville. We have 9 dealers along that stretch, just about every popular line represented, but my dealer is worth the 45 minute drive, to Gainesville, for that peace of mind and a cup of coffee with a friend.

Cheers \:D
Kev


Boat-free at the moment but looking for
"Our Friend-Ship"

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#20241 - 12/30/03 02:53 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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 Quote:
Originally posted by Lana's Lana'i:
Great Topic!!! I have aways wondered why it has to be this way. Why dealers feel like they have to trick or unbalance a buyer.
It doesn't have to be this way (tricking/unbalancing a buyer), but the reality is that dealers are in the business to be profitable. After all the rhyme and rhetoric have gone away, the bottom line is if they don't make a profit they don't stay in business. \:\( Buyers have sort of created this unhealthy scenario because we always want too much for our trade, then want the absolute bottom line on the new boat. It just doesn't work that way.

There isn't a dealer out there who isn't a better negotiator than the average buyer. They aren't afraid (and shouldn't be) to sell a boat at full retail. If they did, the buyer would be getting "hosed" because he paid waaaaaaay too much. The flip side is there are buyers who buy below invoice. The dealer has to average the sales out and make a certain profit per deal...or he doesn't stay in business.

Therein lies the secret to being a good negotiator...allow the dealer to make a profit (don't try to weasel out every last dollar) but let him know you don't want to get screwed on the deal. The integrity of your dealer and your relationship with that dealer will have a LOT to do with the kind of deal you get.

Our perception of the biggest car/truck dealers in the country is that they deal in huge volume so they don't have to make as much money on each vehicle so if "I" buy there I'll save money. Not usually.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#20242 - 12/30/03 07:34 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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I have found boat buying is so much different than car buying. With car buying it seems like you can dicker pretty hard and get what you want. With boats, it is much tougher. Maybe because there is less competition.

Of course you want to make the best deal, and in consideration the dealer must make a profit. You want them to stay in business to support you after you buy a boat.

I found last year when we bought our new boat after we got down to the nitty gritty that I was able to have the dealer throw in some extra's and options to close the deal. Alot of times these may not cost the dealer much but have a sticker value.

One thing that surprised me is how the dealer acts and treats their customers. The one dealer I was very serious about their boat and made several offers. To be honest it was more than we had budgeted. Unfortunately instead of simply saying this is as low as I can go and be done, they decided to try and close the sale with a smaller engine that was really undersized for the boat. At first it was exciting to see the price get closer to where I wanted, but after talking with others they told me I would not be happy with the power. The other dealer gave me his best deal and told me no pressure. Even after the test drive he told me to take my time on the decision and make sure it was the right boat. That low pressure and honesty approach really set it's mark and won my respect. Needless to say they got a boat sale and have a very happy customer that is praising the dealership.

A final note, I was a little leary buying at boat shows but think we got a good price, plus volvo had a boat show promo going that threw in a 5 yr warranty on the engine as a bonus.

Corrie


2005 Cobalt 220
Volvo 375hp Duoprop
#20243 - 12/30/03 05:36 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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I think you should pay the same price for a boat or car as anything other large item - the lowest price possible before the dealer walks away from the deal. Every businessperson has a price that they will walk away from the deal. That price can change from day to day, or even hour to hour sometimes.

Now finding this price is not always easy - At Walmart it is, they post it on a price tag. But it's more difficult at a boat dealer. It is not a matter of a certain percentage over or under invoice price - because each dealer must recover some overhead costs also, and they may or may not have clarity on those costs.

My method of getting the lowest price is simple, and works every time. But it takes tremendous discipline and confidence. First, you must do some homework (independent of the dealer) and know what similar items are actually selling for. Second, you must make all of the arrangements to buy and make your mind up before you begin to negotiate. Third, and hardest, you must take emotion totally out of the transaction. Sure, you want that shiny new boat - but you have to be willing to walk away if the price is not right. If you aren't willing to, you are negotiating with emotion, not your head.

Walk into the dealer and tell them you are interested in the boat, but you don't have much time - quote them a low, but reasonable price at which you will sign a sales agreement right now. If they say yes, sign it, and go home happy - and don't have any second thoughts.

If they say no, ask them for the lowest price they will go for today - let them understand this is their only opportunity to sell you today, and you intend to shop elsewhere. If their offer is good, sign it, if not, leave immediately.

Will the dealer get upset with you over this approach. NO! They will treat you with great respect. You haven't wasted their time. You haven't been sneaky or sly. They may be disappointed that they couldn't get more out of you. They may even say to themselves that they can't afford to sell this low to everyone - but they will not be upset with you.

Buying big ticket items is one of the biggest opportunities for wealth creation or loss that most people perform on a day to day basis. I'm always amazed that people will drive across town to save a few pennies on gas, but will readily pay a couple hundred dollars extra a month on a bad deal.

#20244 - 12/31/03 12:39 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Great topic, one strategy mentioned I used and worked well with me was using the internet. First, I used it for research to try to determine a reasonable price. Second, I found one 5 hrs away for a really good price and worked out a deal over the phone. I showed the price to my local dealer and told him I was going up there to buy it. In my mind, I was actually willing to pay $500 more locally for my convenience and to compensate the dealer for the higher transportion cost he would have to pay. I was shocked when he beat that price by $900. I think I must of asked him 5 times if that was the right price. I didn't want them coming back to me later and saying they made a mistake.

In the end, a reasonable price is one that you feel good about.

David

#20245 - 12/31/03 09:55 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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cny boater Offline
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Central New York
There is a lot of good info in this thread.

To add to it, there is a book "Boating Magazine's Insider's Guide to buying a Powerboat" by J.P. Lamy.

It contains "everything you need to know to buy a new or used small powerboat (32' and under) at a terrific savings".

I have this book and it is an excellent read. I think the author even recommends bringing the book into negotiatons, placing it next to your checkbook on the salesman's desk when you're ready to do "business" \:D .

Amazon affiliate page link


Bob
2002 Cobalt 226 350 MPI B1

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#20246 - 02/10/04 08:01 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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RodS Offline
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Allen, TX
I could use some advice on taking delivery of my boat. In case you ask who the heck is this guy see “Newbie – 798”. I am due to take delivery of an 04’ 250 Horizon FW in a few days. I have been working with the dealer since the Dallas summer boat show. We worked out a fair price, they threw in some add-ons, and some of the kickback money that was expected from the manufacture designated for the “winter” boat show. All this was done prior to the winter show in an effort to “get a better deal” during an otherwise off peak-season time.

Well, the winter boat show has come and gone. I am still somewhat happy with my price although I no longer believe I “got a better deal”. The one thing that bums me out is several dealers were offering extended engine warranties as package deals. Is it fair for me to ask for an extended warranty from my dealer or is it too late?

Thanks, RodS


pending
#20247 - 02/10/04 08:21 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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I also worked out a deal prior to my winter boat show. I was deciding between 2 different boat makes and both dealers said that I would get any boat show specials and that if I felt there was a better deal at the boat show, they would rework my deal. The boat show incentives are typically available throughout the US winter boat show season. So yes, go ahead and ask for any additional boat show incentives. Especially since you haven't taken delivery yet.


2004 Cobalt 200 5.7Gi DP
2004 Toyota Sequoia
#20248 - 02/11/04 01:55 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Northern Land of Lincoln
RodS - As a matter of reference for you, my new Four Winns just arrived last week. I had ordered it in October and told the dealer I wanted the 2+4. His price was "around $1,100". When he called to tell me the boat was in I asked him what he would charge me for the 2+4. He said since the boat show deals are going on that was what he would give me so I got a free 2+2 and paid $300 to extend it to 2+4. He just happens to be between boat shows so I think he was in a giving mood when it comes to extended warranty. If I was in your position I would play the boat show incentive deal heavily.


2004 Four Winns 194 Funship VP 5.0GXI DuoProp
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
2004 Toro 16-38HXL
#20249 - 02/23/04 10:38 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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jjct1 Offline
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jjct1  Offline
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Lake Tapps
Another good place to find the value of you boat trade-in is through BoatUS's free value check. I have used it several times and it seems closer to the regional selling price than NADA.

http://www.boatus.com/buyer/valueform.htm

I think they get the values going against insurance claims/policies in your area.


2004 Mastercraft X-Star
2001 Kawasaki 900 STX
#20250 - 05/07/04 06:57 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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MrMick Offline
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MrMick  Offline
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Sonoma, California
I was a total greenhorn when I bought my first--and so far, only--boat (a 1999 SeaRay BR210).

I *think* we got a good deal because we were:

A: Working with a good dealer (Marine Max in Santa Rosa, Calif.).
B. Working with an experience salesperson who was a boater himself.
B: Buying at the right time of year (March, 2000)
C: Buying a new '99 model that another customer had ordered, and then refused to take delivery of because it wound up being the wrong color.

I had intended to buy a smaller boat--was actually thinking of a 18-foot bowrider--but I fell in love with the BR-210. I think list price for boat, trailer and 5.7-liter Mercruiser was $32K, and we paid $27 (after a $1K factory rebate for buying a prior-year's model).

That price included a full tank of gas (48 gallons), all the safety gear (life jackets, fire extinguisher, etc.), and an orientation cruise on delivery. We also get a decent discount on anything we buy in the parts department.

Having said all that, we probably could have worked a better deal if we'd done more homework ahead of time and were better at negotiating. But I'm not unhappy.

I think the most important thing to remember about buying any big-ticket item is to build a relationship for after the sale. I don't mean to say that you should pay the dealer's asking price without negotiating, but it's not going to benefit you in the long run to pursue a scorched-earth policy, either.


1999 Sea Ray BR-210, 5.7L Alpha I
1999 GMC Sierra 1500, Z71
#20251 - 05/10/04 11:14 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Grand Poobah

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Pasco, WA
 Quote:
Originally posted by MrMick:
Having said all that, we probably could have worked a better deal if we'd done more homework ahead of time and were better at negotiating. But I'm not unhappy.... but it's not going to benefit you in the long run to pursue a scorched-earth policy, either.
Mr. Mick, you hit it right on the nose...If you are happy with the deal you got, then it was right for you. It doesn't matter if it was right for anyone else. And as my post said, if you haggle for the last possible nickle and leave a bad taste in the mouth of the dealer he's not going to reward you with good service as he might someone that he has warm fuzzy feelings for.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#20252 - 05/14/04 07:19 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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MrMick Offline
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MrMick  Offline
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Sonoma, California
Ironically enough, I got laid off less than a year after we'd bought the boat. After struggling for almost a year to find another job in my field (journalism), I took a shot at being a car salesman.

Man, what an experience *that* was. I'd never had a high opinion of car salesmen, but after having been one for 18 months, I now understand how tough their job really is.

Of course, that doesn't change the fact that many of them are still a**holes, but the next time I buy a car, I won't start off with that point of view.

Happily for me, I'm back in my chosen field, editing a new computer magazine.

I still have the boat, of course.


1999 Sea Ray BR-210, 5.7L Alpha I
1999 GMC Sierra 1500, Z71
#20253 - 05/14/04 07:48 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Finger Lakes Boater Offline
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Finger Lakes Boater  Offline
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Takilma, Oregon
This is always a nice topic to revisit from time to time. Negotiating styles are all over the board, and dealers' approaches have just as much variability. That said, a GOOD relationship with a GOOD dealer can really add to your boating ease and pleasure. I'll vote with GFC here, MrMick. Getting that last dollar doesn't always pay.

Our dealer surprised us by making his initial price offer a couple of percentage points lower than our "won't go higher" price. Kinda took the wind out of my sails. Of course we whined a bit and got a few more goodies, but basically gave him what he was looking for. Pricing circumstances were uniquely in our favor (9-11 had recently destroyed the boating business, and we were first customer, first day of boat show--and a familiar face). But by not taking advantage, preserved a wonderful working relationship with the guy.

I think you did well. (And nice job on keeping the boat through the employment scare!) Gotta keep them priorities straight! \:\)


“I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of moneyed corporations which dare to challenge our government in a trial of strength, defy the laws of our country.” Thomas Jefferson "Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will seek to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of a few, and the Republic is destroyed." Abraham Lincoln
#20254 - 05/29/04 02:19 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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rhino Offline
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rhino  Offline
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Posts: 5
Wyoming
Hey all! I'm new to this site but I thought I might add a little. Please see my story "BRAND NEW Larson from dealer-not NEW!" on other forum sites.

Anyway, this was our first boat purchase. I grew up boating while my wife only stood on shore and dreamed of it. We researched boats and dealers in our area for 3-4 years (we also were trying to convience ourselves that this is something we needed!) and went to our third winter boat show in as many years.

I recognized a perticular dealer as soon as we walked in and they carried the brand we liked (Larson). We went to buy a 19' bowrider. We are a family of four with 8 and 9 year old boys. We also have a Jeep Wrangler and a Jeep Cherokee so size and weight was an issue.

We spent two days decideing on the 19 footer we had gone to buy, but left with a 21 footer. All I had to say to my price-concious wife was "Think about five years from now...we'll still have this boat, the boys will be teenagers, with friends or girlfriends, and this 19 footer will be filled to the brim! 2 feet in a boat is huge and the weight wasn't an issue. Retail price was over $35,000 (260 HP Merc and loaded) but we got the "boat show special" price of 27,000. This seemed fair (at this time you should read our story). If you are in a place with a winter climate...buy during the cold season. Test run all summer, with good intentions of buying, and return to the dealer that was most helpful and carries the brand(s) you like in the winter. They need the money and the deserve to make a fair profit, but you deserve a good price and good service as well.

Rhino


"Dont go into the water, you just ate!"
#20255 - 06/01/04 06:26 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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F14bombcat Offline
Admiral
Happy Birthday F14bombcat  Offline
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Buffalo, NY
Rhino, welcome aboard!

Don't forget to check this out. ;\)
http://www.boatingabc.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/2234.html#000000


1995 Formula 303 SR-1, 454 MAGs
2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500
#20256 - 08/10/04 07:57 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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fastboater Offline
Ensign
fastboater  Offline
Ensign

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Can anybody put together a list of things to look for when buying a used boat?

#20257 - 08/10/04 08:19 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Grand Poobah

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Pasco, WA
fastboater...this might be better posted as a new topic. I think you'd get more responses to it than you will here under this one.

GFC


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#20258 - 10/03/04 11:38 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Alex D Offline
Ensign
Alex D  Offline
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Greensboro, NC
Since I have been shopping now for about a month, I can honestly say that all offers from dealers I have received (independent from each other and five different manufacturers dealers) are all magically about 20% under the sticker price for the craft.

Now until the end of Feb. is also of course the best time to buy ... after working through all this negotiating, I would suggest you should never pay more than retail minus 20%, unless it is a new model with high demand or you are buying in season.

Friends of mine just bought a brand new holdover 2003 model year 21 ft. deckboat for over 30% under list.


"Hau'Oli" - 2002 Sea Ray 340 Sundancer 8.1S
#20259 - 01/16/05 10:07 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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captkevin Online content
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captkevin  Online Content
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Chicago, IL
My suggestion is to shop around for best buy and give consideration to giving dealer has the most convienant location final shot. Bringing the boat to same dealer for service provides obvious advantages. If selling dealer is inconvient for service it might not be the great deal.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#20260 - 07/11/05 02:47 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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new2boating Offline
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new2boating  Offline
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southern California
This thread hasn't been active for a while but I just recently got the bug to purchase a boat for the first time. I'm not in a big hurry since I don't plan on taking delivery until next spring. The boat that I am interested is not available in the showroom. I was planning on ordering it outfitted just the way I want it. I am looking at the Tahoe 215cc.

My question is under these circumstances should I be paying near MSRP. The dealer that I have talked to so far said that there is very little profit on these boats and this is the going price. Obviously, I am free to order from a variety of dealers since any dealer can get the boat for me. Should I be looking at some discount off of the price.

Also, in all of the posts on this thread nobody indicated the price range of boats that they feel have are up for negotiation. Obviously there is more room to get a few thousand dollars of a $100,000+ boat then a $40,000 boat. Is there much room for negotiation on the price of boats that are less than $40,000.

Thanks in advance for the advice, Jeff

#20261 - 07/11/05 03:13 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Play Deep Offline
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Play Deep  Offline
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Northern Land of Lincoln
 Quote:
Originally posted by new2boating:
The dealer that I have talked to so far said that there is very little profit on these boats and this is the going price.
Run. Bye bye dealer.



2004 Four Winns 194 Funship VP 5.0GXI DuoProp
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
2004 Toro 16-38HXL
#20262 - 07/11/05 03:19 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Boatsrule Offline
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Boatsrule  Offline
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Paw Paw/Vicksburg Michigan, GO...
Like Play Deep Said! This guy is giving you a line!!

Try a dealer who would like to sell a boat! If this guy lies to a new buyer like he did you what will happen when you need dealer service?

Put them there running shoes on and run to another dealer!


Good luck


-----------------------------------




#20263 - 07/11/05 04:57 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Eric F Offline
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Eric F  Offline
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Kansas City / Stockton Lake, M...
I'm not so sure the dealer is lying in this case. I believe that Tahoe is one of the few brands that advertises (nationally) what their "real" price is, or at least pretty close to it. I'm sure the dealer has some leeway, but I've talked to a couple of different Tahoe dealers, and both were using the advertised price as their actual price.

And, the price generally seems to be in line with what you would expect to pay for the boat.


1994 Starcraft 2010SS
"Mañana"
2004 Nissan Pathfinder
#20264 - 07/12/05 01:24 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Boatsrule Offline
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Boatsrule  Offline
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Paw Paw/Vicksburg Michigan, GO...
Eric,
I would still think some negotiating would be in order. Like a Coast Guard pkg. or extended warranty, free slip for the first season.


-----------------------------------




#20265 - 07/12/05 04:59 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Eric F Offline
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Eric F  Offline
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Kansas City / Stockton Lake, M...
Boatsrule -

Oh, absolutely...he should be able to negotiate a little something. Its just that in the case of Tahoe boats, I don't think its reasonable to expect the sizable percentage "discount off MSRP" like you expect to with most builders.


1994 Starcraft 2010SS
"Mañana"
2004 Nissan Pathfinder
#20266 - 07/18/05 03:18 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Wachuko Offline
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Wachuko  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 69
Orlando, FL
From the comments here and in the other post I made... here is what I have gather so far... included in the price you should have (depends on the size of the boat and what is standard for the boat you are buying... but this list gave me a good idea of what to ask for... thanks for the forum members that provided their comments):

1. Extended warranty - seems like 2 (standard)+ 4 (extended) for a total of 6 years is now the norm in terms of total years of warranty...
2. Trailer with brakes and a spare tire(if you need the trailer)
3. Safety equipment required by law... flare gun kit, PFDs, a throwable type IV PFD, fire extinguisher (B-I), whistle or air horn, firs aid kit, dewatering device (manual pump or a bucket)
4. Basic items needed... anchor and rode, fenders (at least two and make those a good size, not the small *** ones...) with their lines, dock lines
5. VHF radio (but check what they charge you for this... street prices and what the dealer charges can be quite different... in my case a 250.00 difference for the same radio). Antenna, Stainless steel antenna mount
6. Depending on the boat some electronics... GPS, depth finder
7. Flush kit
8. First service visit after break in period
9. Canvas and a mouring cover
10. Tie down boat strap... one for the back and one for the front... you should not rely on your trailer winch to do the holding...

others will surely continue to contribute to this thread...


Be Safe!
Jaime Diaz (a.k.a. Wachuko)

2006 Regal 2200 5.0 GXi
#20267 - 01/17/06 11:01 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Sea Venture Offline
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Sea Venture  Offline
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Buzzards Bay Massachusetts
Here is one tactic I tell interested parties in buying a boat. You and the wife go look at all the boats and break it down to 1 or 2 that you like. The either the husband or wife goes to make the best deal with the dealer. Then when the deal is set bring the other spouse in for approval and make like there is something unacceptable about the boat deal. At this point the dealer see his sale going south, so he/she will make some other offer to close the deal.

Friend of mine did this last year on a use boat. Wifey came in a nixed the deal, salesman offered free seasons slipage to close the deal! Slipage worth $3200.00.

Mike -


Sea Venture
#20268 - 01/22/06 09:04 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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steveyacht Offline
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steveyacht  Offline
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Posts: 49
Little River, SC
After having been involved with Tahoe, I can tell you that the Tracker Marine Group, the owner of Tahoe, has instituted a national pricing policy. Every price of every boat and every option is given on their web site. The only variable, dealer to dealer, are the shipping costs. Dealers can actually violate the dealer agreement by not adhereing to their pricing policies as outlined in that agreement. For what it is worth, the margins in that product is much less than I thought it would or should be in order to maintain profitibility for a smaller dealer. Their whole concept of sales it based upon volume and (according to them) high quality customer service.


Steveyacht
Carolina Boat and Yacht Sales
Wellcraft and Rinker Dealer
#20269 - 02/14/06 12:52 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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Bill Kearney Offline
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Bill Kearney  Offline
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Bethesda, MD USA
Vendors can't get away with price fixing. They can try but it's not legal.

No salesman in his right mind (if such a thing can be said) will play along with not being able to negotiate.

Sure, vendors want to maintain fantasies about customer service and the like but that's all basically just bull****. They want to move boats and not have too much inconsistency in pricing. They generally want to avoid having a dealer in one region making outrageous deals (out of panic, stupidity, cash flow issues, etc) and selling into another market and disrupting that region's reliable dealers.

#20270 - 10/27/06 07:33 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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waterlogged Offline
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waterlogged  Offline
Admiral

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SoCal
Wadda ya say we bump this baby to the top for those fall boat sales.....


"KNOT-A FULL DECK"
2006 Reinell 220LSE, 270 hp 5.0L GXI
2005 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off Road
#20271 - 11/21/06 10:19 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat  
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trooplewis Offline
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trooplewis  Offline
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San Diego
EVERYTHING is negotiable. Price, trade-in value, interest rate, extended service contract cost, accessories, after-sale service.

If you have a dealer who does not believe that, and you can read this, you have Internet access and can find a dealer who DOES believe it.

#361214 - 11/28/07 11:48 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: trooplewis]  
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Grand Poobah

Joined: Nov 2003
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Pasco, WA
Just bumping this up to the top for a while.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#436719 - 09/24/08 12:29 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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haulinbass Offline
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haulinbass  Offline
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Alabama
Some great advice. Everything is negotiable.


Robert
Sales, Shoals Outdoor Sports
http://www.shoalsoutdoorsports.com
Triton, Larson, Maxum, Nautic Star, Polaris ATV, KTM
haulinbass@mail.com
#477051 - 01/01/10 04:19 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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MINION Offline
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MINION  Offline
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Frankfort,Il (Far-South Chicag...
Stop writing the check 1/2 way through.
Close the checkbook and stare @ the salesman.....
Say nothing and see what happends .


Tim n Barb
(MINION)
[url=http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rustynickl@sbcglobal.net/detail?.tok=phbA3oBBcSESKykm&.dir=/b9f3&.dnm=a70f.jpg&.src=ph]Bayliner 1850 Capri LS 3 liter LOVE!
#477060 - 01/01/10 08:41 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: MINION]  
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Grand Poobah

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Pasco, WA
Minion, I've never heard that before. It would rattle the most seasoned salesman.

There's an old rule in a "standoff" like that--the first person wo speaks, loses.

If the salesman is smart he'll just sit tight and let the loooooong silence wear down the buyer. Most likely what will happen is the salesman will say something like "What's wrong?"

At that point a real negotiator buyer would say "Ya know, I'm just not sure I'm ready to do this."

That will really shake up the salesman and at that point the negotiations could start all over again. The buyer has nothing to lose by starting over. The dealer can't go HIGHER than they were before and most likely will end up giving up some of his profit.

Good Tactic. thumb


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#477188 - 01/03/10 08:52 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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tbkohl Offline
Captain Bayliner !
tbkohl  Offline
Captain Bayliner !
Admiral

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South Chicago Burbs , Illinois
It would give me shivers too !

Last edited by tbkohl; 01/03/10 08:53 PM.

(Tim n Barb)
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#477247 - 01/05/10 01:22 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: tbkohl]  
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Workingman Offline
Ensign
Workingman  Offline
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Posts: 36
I have never used this particular Minion's (aka "tbkohl", if memory serves correct) approach before. Great advice. Thanks whomever you are!

Last edited by Workingman; 01/05/10 01:28 AM.
#477251 - 01/05/10 10:10 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: tbkohl]  
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WaterWing Offline
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WaterWing  Offline
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Chicago
The salesman does the negotiating/bickering for a living. Every day he/she "closes the deal". You do it once every few years to buy a car/boat. You really aren't going to beat them at their game. They've seen it all. You can only hope you get the price close to the breaking point (some advice in this thread can help with that). They will not sell the boat if they are going to lose money.

The only way for me to get a good price is to buy something that I never intended to buy. My natural body language of "I don't care and I'm not that interested" usually can get me close to the bottom line. But who really knows. Every deal I've ever made, I always wonder if I couldn't have done better.


2001 Larson SEi-230 5.7 Merc/Alpha1
2013 Ford Explorer
#477255 - 01/05/10 11:10 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: WaterWing]  
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patrick232 Offline
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patrick232  Offline
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Hilliard, OH
On our last truck I purchased in October I only took one check. Once they gave me there price vs what I wanted to pay I started writing the check. Filled in the first and last two numbers and stopped. They kept asking me to fill in the middle two. Guess what be firm and they will bend. Currently they need the sale more than we need new toys or cars.

Last night my neighbor that is a sales manager for the local Nissan store had a couple of cars to hit the sales numbers for the A to Z sale. He shot me a number for the car that would save us about $70 on our current lease and Nissan would forgive the balance of payments if we released a new one.

But he did not have the right color so I called the other dealer that did and played the game. Our dealer could only lower his price to save us about $80 a month over our current payment, since from the time he called they hit there mark and did not need to lose money to move the car.

Mind you I'm sitting at home at 6pm with my dealers car and the other dealer calls and I tell them I have a car in the garage and will let them know after dinner.

Within 10 minutes they other dealer called dropped the monthly payment to the point the wife is jumping up and down, she answered the phone. They are going to give us a payment that will say $120 per month, same terms.

I go and return the car to my neighbor and we double check all his numbers and no dice, can't lower it. So we build the deal the other dealer is offering, it's a net loss deal by $2,500 or more. At this point I'm thinking bait and switch, snow is falling and they just want me to drive across town and will change the monthly payment.

Guess what the wife is driving a new 2010 Maxima for a stupid low monthy payment with zero out of pocket and they even paid the first payment. So for the next 39 months and 58,500 miles the cost of the lease payment will be $0.30 per mile. This is not bad on a $37,500 car


Last edited by patrick232; 01/05/10 11:11 AM.

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#487830 - 06/05/10 10:01 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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MINION Offline
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MINION  Offline
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Frankfort,Il (Far-South Chicag...
Great trick for buying a boat new OR used.
Start writing the check and stop and put the checkbook away.....


Tim n Barb
(MINION)
[url=http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rustynickl@sbcglobal.net/detail?.tok=phbA3oBBcSESKykm&.dir=/b9f3&.dnm=a70f.jpg&.src=ph]Bayliner 1850 Capri LS 3 liter LOVE!
#487874 - 06/07/10 06:42 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: MINION]  
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bperg Offline
Admiral
bperg  Offline
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huntingdon, pa
couple of things after reading the entire thread...
#1- someone stated that negotiating on big ticket items is a step in "wealth building"... buying a new depreciating asset is never wealth building, buy used that will do the job if you want to create wealth. Used boats are very condition sensitive, meaning that if you buy a used boat and care for it, it will maintain a lot of it's value. New to 4 or 5 year old boats drop in value rappidly. #2- 10 years ago I was Crownline, Donzi, Wellcrafe, and Doral dealer and MSRP was 45% over invoice or close on those lines. Also we got discounts on time of year purchase (not delvery, but when we ordered), cash discounts (up to 10%), so if you special order a boat it was cheaper for us as we could pay for it, but most buyers are willing to PAY MORE for the "perfect boat". #3- many trades came with equipment in them that we stored and used for "throw ins" to make the deal..cost to us zero, however still saved the buyer money on equiping their new toy.

#533088 - 05/17/12 11:56 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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BToran Offline
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congrats on your purchase and welcome to the board.



Bruce,

That guy was a spammer. The Asshats are getting more creative. I deleted his posting and banned the account.

Mike

Last edited by Admin; 05/17/12 06:42 PM.

Bruce Toran
Former Owner of a 1996 Carver 320 Voyager
-----------------------------------------
"Don't Eat Anything Bigger Than Your Head"
#533102 - 05/17/12 02:37 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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Frantically Relaxing Offline
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I'll never forget watching my dad do the lease deal on our first leased truck, a '95 Ford 1/2 ton.

Dad didn't care WHAT the price of the truck was. Could've been a million bucks, the price didn't matter...

What he told them first, and never once backed down, what exactly HIS terms were: "no more than $1500 down and less than $300 per month".

We got up to leave twice, and it took them 4 hours to do it, but they finally came back with a $1500 down 2 year lease with a payment of $299.94 a month.

I played the same game on our next truck. It works. smile

#533155 - 05/18/12 08:52 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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PhatboyC Offline
Always Need a Bigger Boat
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Admiral

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Ottawa/Ontario
Don't like that idea FR. Allot of people use this as its more easy and secure for them. They know their budget and don't want to cross it and that's fine. But the problem with this you often end up with something worth less then this monthly amount.

My advice is to find the cost of the vehicle. Then you negotiate a three different dealership for the best price. You don't tell them its for the same brand of vehicle.


-------------------------------
25'.6" Cuddy Cabin - Sold
*Sold the boat after 9 wonderful years. Looking for a bigger one.
#533160 - 05/18/12 10:13 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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Frantically Relaxing Offline
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Since we were leasing, and were planning on leasing again, the deal worked out great. We'd already done our shopping, there was only one truck within 500 miles that met our needs (1/2 ton, V8, auto trans, 2-wheel drive). Based on the dealers initial lease terms the down+payments would've totaled north of $10,400, but when we were done we ended up paying $8700. There were no other costs involved. The bottom line, we saved $1700, which was nearly 10% of sticker price.

#533162 - 05/18/12 12:22 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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captkevin Online content
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Chicago, IL
For leasing that would seem like the only way to go.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#546432 - 06/05/13 02:23 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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Sharon1 Offline
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Wow...a lot of good thought there...I'm now in the process of purchasing and this helps...Thx.

#548078 - 07/22/13 07:13 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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MasterGuns0861 Offline
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North Carolina
I have been in the market for my 1st boat for a couple months. Unfortunately my "boat budget" is small $5,000-$8,000 looking for a cuddy cabin type boat. The boats I have seen all have something wrong with them bad trailer, bad motor, smelly cabin, soft decking. been underwater oh the list goes on and on. But I have found a nice boat its a 25 ft 1972 Chris Craft Catalina cruiser but I cant find any information online about it.. Not in NADA or Hagerty insurance Is there another place I can look?

#548079 - 07/22/13 07:22 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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Capn Morgan Offline
Scallywag
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West Michigan


2004 Chaparral 235 SSi
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#548080 - 07/22/13 07:39 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: Capn Morgan]  
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MasterGuns0861 Offline
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North Carolina
Thanks

#557320 - 09/24/14 02:50 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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williemon Offline
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I did not notice in this thread if saying you will pay in cash was mentioned. My question is, does that help to get the cost closer to where its better for the buyer? If so, what is considered cash? I know the green will be, but how about a check?

#557327 - 09/24/14 04:43 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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WaterWing Offline
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Pulling from the achieves huh.
I think paying cash is worse on making the deal. They much prefer you finance thru them or thru a bank they do co-op business.


2001 Larson SEi-230 5.7 Merc/Alpha1
2013 Ford Explorer
#557568 - 10/04/14 01:42 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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Grand Poobah

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Pasco, WA
I apologize for not seeing this earlier. Williemon, check out the next sticky thread on negotiating for a lower interest rate. Boat dealers do make money when you finance through one of the banks they have an association with, so they could give you a lower up front price knowing they're going to make some profit on the "back end".


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#557620 - 10/06/14 10:02 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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captkevin Online content
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Used some of your tips this weekend. Mother in law looking to purchase new car & enlisted myself & wife to help. She called Friday night saying she was going to get her new car Saturday. Did some quick research & gave the wife a quick review of your tips. They ended up leaving but I betting they will be calling back today with a much better deal.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#557624 - 10/06/14 12:03 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: WaterWing]  
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Justification Offline
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Justification  Offline
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Fruit Heights, Utah
Originally Posted By: WaterWing
Pulling from the achieves huh.
I think paying cash is worse on making the deal. They much prefer you finance thru them or thru a bank they do co-op business.

How about if you negotiate as if you're going to finance, but when with the closer you decide the interest rate or terms are wrong and decide to pay cash at that point?


Beer makes you feel the way
You should feel without beer.
#557625 - 10/06/14 01:05 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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Pasco, WA
Justi, you can do that, but if you're buying from a dealer you'd like to have a future service relationship with, that might not be your best course. If the dealer gives you a good price on something because he thinks he's going to make money on the finance reserves (call the "back end"), then you jerk the rug out from under him, he's going to be pi$$ed.

A better way to do it might be to finance it, then after your third payment pay it off. The reason for this is most banks have a "60-day charge back rule" that says if the loan that was put in place I paid off within 60 days, the dealer must forfeit the amount he was paid in finance reserves. Yeah, it will cost you a bit in interest charges to make those three payments, but you may gain a lot by keeping the dealer as your friend.

By going to the third payment, then paying it off, the dealer doesn't have to pay the reserve amount back to the bank.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#557723 - 10/11/14 12:51 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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We were able to get my Mother in laws purchase down $7000 from where we took over for her. Had to leave dealer #1 & took a few days longer but well worth it. She was thrilled.

Last edited by captkevin; 10/11/14 12:51 AM.

2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#557743 - 10/13/14 01:30 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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Grand Poobah

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Pasco, WA
I can well imagine. We saved somewhere around $6,500 from the starting price on GW's Terrain to where we ended up. That buys a LOT of gas.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#559281 - 02/23/15 11:27 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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deepv Offline
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deepv  Offline
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Admiral

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SoCal
This Cutwater that we're interested in has a very small dealer network.

How do you play one dealer against another in a scenario such as this? When the next closest dealer is 1000+ miles away in WA state it is a little hard to use their price to get a lower price..

Any other suggestions? We have no trade for this deal and will need financing on a boat this large.


72% of fatal boat accidents are caused by
boaters that haven't taken a safe boating course.

[Linked Image][Linked Image]
#559367 - 02/27/15 06:21 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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Grand Poobah

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By way of an FYI for anyone reading this, I talked with Wayne on the phone about some tactics and ways to approach this and we likely will talk at least once more.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#559370 - 02/27/15 09:31 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: captkevin]  
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athiker Offline
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athiker  Offline
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Lake Norman, NC
Originally Posted By: captkevin
We were able to get my Mother in laws purchase down $7000 from where we took over for her. Had to leave dealer #1 & took a few days longer but well worth it. She was thrilled.


Wow, that must be some nice car if they moved $7k more than where she left off!

I can't my dealer off MSRP....yet.


2000 Cobalt 206 5.7L EFI Alpha 1
#559373 - 02/27/15 11:28 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: athiker]  
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Grand Poobah

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Pasco, WA
Originally Posted By: athiker
I can't my dealer off MSRP....yet.

Maybe you should expand your area where you're looking. When I bought GW's Infiniti the WA and OR dealers I talked with by phone were stuck on MSRP. One big hearted dealer was willing to come down $350 off MSRP but that's as far as he'd go.

I made a call to a Sacramento dealer and within 20 minutes I'd struck a deal to buy the car I was looking for and saved almost $6,500. It cost me $650 to ship it from Sacramento to WA and it arrived in great shape.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#559382 - 02/28/15 09:01 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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athiker Offline
Admiral
athiker  Offline
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Lake Norman, NC
Originally Posted By: GoFirstClass
Originally Posted By: athiker
I can't my dealer off MSRP....yet.

Maybe you should expand your area where you're looking. When I bought GW's Infiniti the WA and OR dealers I talked with by phone were stuck on MSRP. One big hearted dealer was willing to come down $350 off MSRP but that's as far as he'd go.

I made a call to a Sacramento dealer and within 20 minutes I'd struck a deal to buy the car I was looking for and saved almost $6,500. It cost me $650 to ship it from Sacramento to WA and it arrived in great shape.



Good advice. I'm out to about a 4 or 5 hour circle so far. Found one dealer so far that has been responsive within that area, just doesn't have the car so is looking. For some reason stock levels are low in NC but not as tight elsewhere. I know there are good deals in FL and NJ. Wife and I just might use our discount savings for a quick "free" trip to a FL beach to buy if it comes to that! smile

We should start a thread on "Boat and Car Dealer Stories". I've driven about a dozen vehicles over the last 2 years in the hunt for replacing our Ody and Trooper so have seen all kinds...some good...some laughable. On the other hand I'm sure the dealers could start a humorous "Customer Stories" thread too!


2000 Cobalt 206 5.7L EFI Alpha 1
#559398 - 03/01/15 03:53 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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Grand Poobah

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Pasco, WA
Don't overlook the concept of having the car you want shipped to you. Dealers that don't have the specific vehicle you're looking for have a network hey can go into to find a dealer who does, and then trade for it. They're more likely to deal with you on a vehicle they have in their inventory, but want to make the sale even when it involves a dealer trade.

I could add a couple of stories about dealer/liar people I've dealt with. Just jump out there on the Misc forum and get it going.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#559401 - 03/01/15 05:32 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: deepv]  
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deepv Offline
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deepv  Offline
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Admiral

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SoCal
Originally Posted By: deepv
This Cutwater that we're interested in has a very small dealer network.

How do you play one dealer against another in a scenario such as this? When the next closest dealer is 1000+ miles away in WA state it is a little hard to use their price to get a lower price..

Any other suggestions? We have no trade for this deal and will need financing on a boat this large.


I know there's unfotunetly only 10 people left on this board now but anyone?


72% of fatal boat accidents are caused by
boaters that haven't taken a safe boating course.

[Linked Image][Linked Image]
#559402 - 03/01/15 05:43 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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captkevin Online content
Admiral
captkevin  Online Content
Admiral

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Chicago, IL
Just because you have narrowed your selection down doesn't mean the dealer has to be privy to this information. You need to use that card to your advantage. tell them you are seriously considering there closest competitors. Do some research & let them think they are getting ready to lose a sale & see how that motivates them.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#559403 - 03/01/15 06:47 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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Parrott_head Offline
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Parrott_head  Offline
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Admiral

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Toss some sales brochures for a similar boat in your wifes lug-a-long, have her rummage through it looking for something for you.


Former owner of a 2002 Four Winns 234 FunShip
'16 F250 4x4 Oil Burner
"Hey, if I'm a Vice Admiral, which vice do I get to claim?"
#559404 - 03/01/15 06:50 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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captkevin Online content
Admiral
captkevin  Online Content
Admiral

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Chicago, IL
Tell them your wife prefers the competitor's boat more. If they could do better on price you might be able to sway her.


2004 Rinker 232
2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab Laramie 4x4
#559406 - 03/01/15 07:16 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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athiker Offline
Admiral
athiker  Offline
Admiral

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Lake Norman, NC
Originally Posted By: GoFirstClass
I could add a couple of stories about dealer/liar people I've dealt with. Just jump out there on the Misc forum and get it going.


Auto Dealer Stories

Sorry, for the hijack DeepV---haven't spent much time in boat dealerships in over a decade.


2000 Cobalt 206 5.7L EFI Alpha 1
#559415 - 03/02/15 01:38 AM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: captkevin]  
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WayWeGo Offline
Admiral
WayWeGo  Offline
Admiral

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Oakton, VA
Originally Posted By: captkevin
Tell them your wife prefers the competitor's boat more. If they could do better on price you might be able to sway her.


+1, or just tell them you have a max price you can afford and the deal is going to fall apart if they cannot get there.



1975 Trojan F36 Convertible, Twin Chrysler 440's
2014 West Marine AL360 Inflatable, 1966 Mercury 6HP, 1992 Mercury 20HP
#560320 - 05/10/15 01:35 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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Grand Poobah

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Pasco, WA
You could also take a step back in your search and start looking at other brands that offer the same designs and features that you're looking for.

I think what Capt Kevin said above is worth following. Don't tell the dealer where you are in your search.

I also think it would be worthwhile to expand your search to include other Cutwater dealers. Even if you have to drive a few hundred miles to pick up a boat, if you saved enough on the purchase it would be worth your time and money to make the drive.


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#560420 - 05/18/15 04:00 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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deepv Offline
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deepv  Offline
Safety Officer
Admiral

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SoCal
A few thousand miles..


72% of fatal boat accidents are caused by
boaters that haven't taken a safe boating course.

[Linked Image][Linked Image]
#561618 - 08/06/15 08:10 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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Grand Poobah

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Pasco, WA
***SPAM ALERT***SPAM ALERT***SPAM ALERT***SPAM ALERT***SPAM ALERT***

Mark Evans, we don't like spammers here on BABC. Take your stupid SPAM story somewhere else. Oh, and don't let the door hit you on the arse on your way out.

Adios MF


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
#561621 - 08/06/15 09:17 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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Admin Offline
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Admiral

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,680
Cyberland
And...

The cretin has been smacked down with the BAN HAMMER.

POW!

Sorry guys. I usually catch these scum before they strike. Been a busy day.

We now take you back to your regularly scheduled postings.


Mike

BoatingABC.com
My imaginary friend thinks you have serious problems.
#561624 - 08/07/15 01:14 PM Re: Negotiating tips for buying your new boat [Re: GoFirstClass]  
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Grand Poobah

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Pasco, WA
Good job Mike. You do a spectacular job of keeping this place free of jerks like that.

Love that BAN HAMMER!!


"Beachcomber" 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge


Anchor's down......Bottoms Up!
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