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#419477 - 07/05/08 06:41 AM Re: Driving in far left lane on Highway? [Re: tpenfield]
D-Rod Online   content
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Registered: 06/25/05
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Mathematically, a limit is a value a function approaches at a specified value. Often, the 1st fundamental theorem of calculus is based off the mathematical understanding of a limit.

Mathematically, a limit is not a "cap" or "max" value. Mathematically, driving 68mph is considered the same as driving 62mph. Both speeds are 3mph away from the limit.

Just food for thought (and early morning sleep deprived ramblings)
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#419478 - 07/05/08 06:45 AM Re: Driving in far left lane on Highway? [Re: D-Rod]
D-Rod Online   content
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Quote:
I don't think that many people have equated speed to gasoline consumption and then to gasoline prices. Perhaps if more people make the speed limit the true limit, things will be better.


WATCH OUT!!! You're about to be labeled a left-side, social engineering liberal! It'd be a shame if someone was not allowed to do whatever they please whenever they feel necessary, forgetting how it hurts every other citizen in the country.
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#419480 - 07/05/08 06:49 AM Re: Driving in far left lane on Highway? [Re: Finger Lakes Boater]
D-Rod Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Finger Lakes Boater
Originally Posted By: casualboater
GFC, I don't buy the part about the law not mentioning speed. The speed limit is covered in another area, it doesn't need to be covered again. My point here is, if I'm doing the legal speed limit, then too bad if you want to go faster. I shouldn't enable you to break the law either, should I? If I'm going 10 under and hanging out in the left lane, that, to me, fits your law perfectly.

Now, I am by no means a left lane camper, but there are times when I pull out there to pass someone, particularly when towing, and some yahoo feels the need to ride my prop while I pass. Settle yourself down, I'll get back over when I'm done passing, and I won't be breaking the speed limit just to make you feel better.


Typical American driver attitude. It's no wonder the Germans are amazed we're licensed to drive over here...


Interesting enough, can you compare our road infrastructure and quality to the Germans?
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#419505 - 07/05/08 09:22 AM Re: Driving in far left lane on Highway? [Re: casualboater]
Finger Lakes Boater Administrator Offline
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Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 8227
Loc: Sammamish, Washington
Originally Posted By: casualboater
Conveniently enough, I don't live in Germany, so why should I drive by their rules? My laws tell me not to exceed a certain speed, so how am I wrong?


In nearly all states, it is against the law to drive in the left lane when not passing. So hard to understand?
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“These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert to fleece the people, and now that they have got into a quarrel with themselves, we are called upon to appropriate the people’s money to settle the quarrel.”

– Abraham Lincoln, speech to Illinois legislature, January 1837

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#419508 - 07/05/08 09:31 AM Re: Driving in far left lane on Highway? [Re: D-Rod]
Finger Lakes Boater Administrator Offline
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Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 8227
Loc: Sammamish, Washington
Originally Posted By: D-Rod

Interesting enough, can you compare our road infrastructure and quality to the Germans?


From WIRED magazine on the 75th Birthday of the autobahn:

The Nazis wanted everyone to believe that they invented it (not true). American libertarian drivers would have you believe it's safer than U.S. freeways (likewise false). The German Autobahn opened on August 6, 1932, a small spit of about 12.5 miles between Cologne and Bonn. Since then, it has been one of the most important testing grounds for automakers in the world. It's not just for the lack of speed limits that this infamous highway is known. It reveals great cultural differences in the ways that car safety is perceived. After you crest one blind hill into Frankfurt, for example, the skid marks are akin to those you'd find on a runway at JFK airport, from cars confronting backed-up traffic. This is at least one reason BMW and Mercedes Benz began work on one of the first anti-lock brake systems. American automakers and regulators, by contrast, tend to be fatalistic, focusing on reducing death and injury rather than preventing them. Even the "Wall Street Journal" recently griped that mandatory fuel mileage standards would force vehicles to lose weight, which would result in rising highway death tolls. The "Journal" failed to note that you're more than four times as likely to be involved in an accident in the first place while driving a 4,000 pound SUV as you would be driving a vehicle weighing 1,000 pounds less with a lower center of gravity. The left lane of the Autobahn is strictly for passing. To wander into it, cell phone in hand, without a clear sense of your car's dimensions and capabilities is to risk suicide from approaching vehicles. The Autobahn demands a driver's engagement with the road. While Americans constantly bemoan our dumbed-down highways by comparison, we seem unwilling to raise the IQ of our cars or the standards for our drivers.
_________________________
“These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert to fleece the people, and now that they have got into a quarrel with themselves, we are called upon to appropriate the people’s money to settle the quarrel.”

– Abraham Lincoln, speech to Illinois legislature, January 1837

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#419515 - 07/05/08 10:13 AM Re: Driving in far left lane on Highway? [Re: casualboater]
GoFirstClass Offline
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Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 7632
Loc: Kennewick, WA
Originally Posted By: casualboater
GFC, I don't buy the part about the law not mentioning speed. The speed limit is covered in another area, it doesn't need to be covered again. My point here is, if I'm doing the legal speed limit, then too bad if you want to go faster. I shouldn't enable you to break the law either, should I? If I'm going 10 under and hanging out in the left lane, that, to me, fits your law perfectly.

Now, I am by no means a left lane camper, but there are times when I pull out there to pass someone, particularly when towing, and some yahoo feels the need to ride my prop while I pass. Settle yourself down, I'll get back over when I'm done passing, and I won't be breaking the speed limit just to make you feel better.


So CB, with that self-serving attitude you are voluntarily taking on the role of the traffic-law enforcer on the stretch of highway you're driving on. Do you also want to take on the role of judge, jury and executioner?

I don't want to get into a spitting match over this, but your attitude is totally incorrect in the eyes of the law. When you pull your truck/trailer into the left lane, do you check to make sure you're not pulling out at a time when you might impede the flow of faster moving traffic? If not, you're probably the guy who looks in his mirror, sees a car approaching in the left lane, and pulls out anyway because it's his God-given right to use that lane however he wants. "Other traffic be damned, I'm going to drive where I want and at whatever speed I want. Let them wait for me."

Here's a link to the Revised Code of Washington (RCW). This specific section deals with driving in the left lane on highways designed for one-way traffic. This language from the RCW is adopted by reference from the Model Traffic Ordinance. FYI, most states have adopted the Model Traffic Ordinances as the reference for their laws. They do that so that traffic laws are uniform from one state to another. BTW, I have eliminated several sections of the statute but you can check this out if you want.

"RCW 46.61.100 Keep right except when passing, etc.

(1) Upon all roadways of sufficient width a vehicle shall be driven upon the right half of the roadway, except as follows:
(d) Upon a street or highway restricted to one-way traffic;
(4) It is a traffic infraction to drive continuously in the left lane of a multilane roadway when it impedes the flow of other traffic."

The reason the law was written with this specific language was that it is widely recognized that many/most drivers do not stay at or under the speed limit. In my experience the closer you get to large cities the faster traffic moves on the freeways. All it takes is one "I'm going to drive the speed limit" person in the left lane to back up traffic for miles.
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#419536 - 07/05/08 04:20 PM Re: Driving in far left lane on Highway? [Re: GoFirstClass]
D-Rod Online   content
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Registered: 06/25/05
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Hey GFC: What happens if i'm passing another vehicle but only passing at maybe 2mph faster and it takes me 60 seconds to get around.

Am I Mr. "bad boy"?
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#419546 - 07/05/08 07:21 PM Re: Driving in far left lane on Highway? [Re: D-Rod]
Finger Lakes Boater Administrator Offline
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Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 8227
Loc: Sammamish, Washington
Originally Posted By: D-Rod
Hey GFC: What happens if i'm passing another vehicle but only passing at maybe 2mph faster and it takes me 60 seconds to get around.

Am I Mr. "bad boy"?


Only if you're impeding traffic.
_________________________
“These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert to fleece the people, and now that they have got into a quarrel with themselves, we are called upon to appropriate the people’s money to settle the quarrel.”

– Abraham Lincoln, speech to Illinois legislature, January 1837

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#419547 - 07/05/08 07:29 PM Re: Driving in far left lane on Highway? [Re: Finger Lakes Boater]
D-Rod Online   content
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Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 7454
So you're telling me that because I want to drive 67mph, that I have to yield the left lane to someone doing 70mph. Or 75mph?

I think NOT! If I am needing to pass a car moving slower, I can use the left lane at my discretion to pass the slower moving vehicle. If someone is driving faster and they have to slow for me to finish my pass, that is quite frankly not my problem to deal with.

I don't have to yield to the law-breaking faster drivers.

Thank you very much.
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#419552 - 07/05/08 08:13 PM Re: Driving in far left lane on Highway? [Re: D-Rod]
FatDog Offline
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Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 1835
Loc: Lakeside, CA
D ... i believe that even traffic control officers won't make a huge presense on busy rush-hour traffic freeways because it reduces the flow of traffic too much ... (ie .. down to legal speed)
so it is perhaps acknowledged from all sides that letting the flow of traffic, to some reasonable degree, have the left lane is not only wise but also polite

but it is similarily acknowledged that early-year college students are almost required to explore the boundaries of goodness and justness smile ,
i just wouldn't make my final last stand on the 'justness of not yielding to traffic that even the highway patrol yields to' issue w

People's Park Berkeley mike grouphug

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#419559 - 07/05/08 09:30 PM Re: Driving in far left lane on Highway? [Re: D-Rod]
GoFirstClass Offline
Boating Bum
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Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 7632
Loc: Kennewick, WA
Originally Posted By: D-Rod
So you're telling me that because I want to drive 67mph, that I have to yield the left lane to someone doing 70mph. Or 75mph?

I think NOT! If I am needing to pass a car moving slower, I can use the left lane at my discretion to pass the slower moving vehicle. If someone is driving faster and they have to slow for me to finish my pass, that is quite frankly not my problem to deal with.

I don't have to yield to the law-breaking faster drivers.

Thank you very much.

Derek, This may be a rude awakening to you, but you're absolutely in the wrong. No matter what speed you're driving in the left lane, you DO have to yield to faster moving traffic. Yes, you can use the left lane to pass a slower moving car, but if you are impeding traffic during your pass, by law you must accelerate to speed up your pass then move over to the right.

The language in that law is very clear and it leaves no room for interpretation....You may not drive in the left lane and impede the flow of faster moving traffic.
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#419560 - 07/05/08 09:42 PM Re: Driving in far left lane on Highway? [Re: GoFirstClass]
D-Rod Online   content
Admiral

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 7454
GFC:

If a person drives the speed limit and is passing cars, then he or she is legal. He or she is not impeding the flow of traffic until he or she refuses to move to the right after passing the slower moving cars.

It is not OK to pull out into the left lane 1/2 mile early, drive the speed limit for 10 minutes while the person attempts to slowly catch the vehicle that will be overtaken.

However, if the car pulls out to pass a line of 3 cars moving slower than the speed limit, and the person chooses to drive the speed limit, and it takes 3 miles to complete the pass after which the driver merges right, that driver is 100% legal. There is absolutely, positively no discussion on that manner.

You cannot impede the flow of traffic if you're passing other vehicle at stated speed limit.





Edited by D-Rod (07/05/08 09:44 PM)
Edit Reason: language
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#419562 - 07/05/08 09:57 PM Re: Driving in far left lane on Highway? [Re: FatDog]
Skibrain Offline
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Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 1638
Loc: MN
D-Rod,

I guess you are perfectly in your rights to overtake another vehicle at 65.5 mph in the left lane for as long as it takes you. In fact why don't you make sure you set the cruise control at that speed to you make SURE you will frustrate the flow of traffic. In the same vein I guess I'm perfectly within my rights to take 30 minutes to load my boat at the ramp oblivious to those who are waiting. I have just as much right to be there! if the waiting parties wanted to get in the water sooner, I guess they should have gotten to the ramp ahead of me.

Its my responsibility as a driver (my opinion) to be completely aware of vehicles ahead, behind, merging. etc and be aware of speed differentials with my own vehicle. If there is some guy in a new F350 (or maybe a 10 yr old Camry) closing on me at 85 mph and my being in the left lane at 75 overtaking 70 mph traffic is causing him to slow, Unless there is no place for me to go, or him to go were I to get out of the way, my job is to drop back in to the right or step on it and get out of the way.

Just finished a 6 hr road trip back from ND. 78 mph typical on 70 and 75 mph limit freeways. (25.3 mpg in the Odyssey thank you very much) Truckers get it. People in rural ND get it. When we lived in Los Angeles 25 yrs ago, THEY got it.

Left lane drivers in my observation tend to be either self-righteous, or completely oblivious. I have little time for either. You want to drive the speed limit, or 10 under to save even more gas? Be my guest. Just keep her to the right.

Thanks.

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#419563 - 07/05/08 09:57 PM Re: Driving in far left lane on Highway? [Re: D-Rod]
GoFirstClass Offline
Boating Bum
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Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 7632
Loc: Kennewick, WA
Originally Posted By: D-Rod
You cannot impede the flow of traffic if you're passing other vehicle at stated speed limit.

Nuf said.


Really. Show me, in the language of the law, where it says that.

FYI, the law was specifically written to prevent the situation you have described.

Now, that being said, it is unlikely you would be issued a ticket for doing it, but I have seen that done. On a recent trip to Seattle, we saw a trooper stop a truck that was driving in the left lane passing a slower moving truck. The truck was a little above the 60mph truck speed limit, but well below the 70 mph car speed limit. During the truck's pass several cars stacked up behind it. The trooper, who was 2 cars ahead of us in that line of cars that formed behind the truck, pulled in behind the truck and turned on his overhead lights when he got up to it.

Now keep in mind that we were ALL behind the trooper's vehicle, so none of us was blazing along at a high speed. The only violation the truck had done was to impede the flow of faster moving traffic while making his pass.
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#419564 - 07/05/08 09:58 PM Re: Driving in far left lane on Highway? [Re: D-Rod]
Andyk2 Offline
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Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 684
Loc: Huntsville, AL
I've seen CHP give tickets to those impeding the flow even though the flow was above the limit. Either way it's F'ing rude to get in others way and in some places it will get you shot.
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